tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post424032066311422565..comments2024-03-27T21:12:28.287-05:00Comments on Collected Editions: Review: Hawk and Dove Vol. 1: First Strikes trade paperback (DC Comics)collectededitionshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-59644569663915644382012-10-01T03:22:17.589-05:002012-10-01T03:22:17.589-05:00This book actually had some potential...
But it...This book actually had some potential...<br />But it's like Rob sabotaged his own creations here...<br />sigh..<br /><br />And about the reboot, I do agree with you above, it brought back the Big 7 to the front scene, as strongly as the Avengers "on the other side" at Marvel.<br />But I'm still not happy about the way they ditched J'onn, a classic and such an important member of the League, over another book... He was and will always be "the constant" of the various JLA iterations!Eyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05350758607787528425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-34372913584943978352012-09-27T11:52:55.506-05:002012-09-27T11:52:55.506-05:00@Doug - That's a fair point -- I cringed when ...@Doug - That's a fair point -- I cringed when DC released Superman: Secret Origin, because indeed I couldn't see that we needed an umpteenth origin of Superman versus just telling good stories. Where the relaunch succeeds, I think, is in making the "Big 7" the first Justice League again (Martian Manhunter notwithstanding) and the world's first superheroes; in making an African American character, Cyborg, a charter member of the League, and so on. But I do agree it's time to stop telling origin stories and start telling story-stories.<br /><br />How much of this has to do with Smallville's residual success -- a ten-year origin story, as it were -- or the popularity of superheroes in movies (very, very often origin stories) is up for discussion. Is it fashionable to tell stories other than origin stories these days?<br /><br />@Mark - I know there's plenty more Liefeld volumes coming down the pike; other people's critiques are their own business, but I couldn't go the "Too many pouches! Too much teeth route!" I mean, Walt Simonson's art doesn't look like Dan Jurgens's, George Perez's, or Jerry Ordway's, and yet Simonson is a master, right? So I'm going to try to be leveled as I read the various Liefeld titles -- this is good, this is dated, this was a mistake, etc. -- because I know you can find the opposite in other places.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-43261641075695752802012-09-27T11:38:21.735-05:002012-09-27T11:38:21.735-05:00My broader point is that I'm just really, real...My broader point is that I'm just really, really tired of relaunches, reboots and reimaginings. Every time I see a "Season One", I cringe, and having yet another "Zero Issue Month" is just a bad flashback to the early 90s.<br /><br />Did we really need Fantastic Four Origin Story #7? And that's a conservative estimate. I enjoyed the Johns/Lee Darkseid arc of JLA, but it all just felt unnecessary when I can go back, read "JLA: Year One" and see the best version of the team's creation, or read "Final Crisis" or "The Great Darkness Saga" for a great Darkseid story. There are some great new ideas from the New 52--I love Batwing, for instance--but a lot of them feel like they could've been done without a mass reboot.doug.glassmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18018711097234509826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-55413126875446347362012-09-27T11:33:35.501-05:002012-09-27T11:33:35.501-05:00CE, it was nice to see a true "critique"...CE, it was nice to see a true "critique" of Liefeld, with both positives and negatives, than the usual bashing that he receives from the Internet fans (myself included!). He still has his fans, although I don't think he has a whole lot of drawing power anymore on a Big 2 book (not that it sounds like he'll be working for the Big 2 ever again).<br /><br />Regarding the New 52, I think it was another case of DC wanting to make their characters younger (in addition to the "marketing gimmick" of a full relaunch - which based on sales numbers was successful, at least for now) and getting rid of some "storyline baggage". Superman and Lois aren't married anymore, Flash isn't married anymore, Green Arrow isn't an old hero who's divorced and done so many bad things in his time that it's hard to stay likeable. Hal Jordan and Bruce Wayne are also younger now, despite the GL & Batman stories still being in continuity.<br /><br />For me, as I've said before, it really comes down to what they DO with these characters in their new status quo. Sure, it's weird to have Clark and Barry single again, and heck yes it would be dumb to copy the same romantic stories that they did (and "everyone read") years ago. No one wants to read new versions of the same old stories that they're familiar with. The goal has to be to take advantage of the new "freedoms" of the characters and TELL GOOD STORIES with them. In the same way that we can read The Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come and enjoy their alternate versions of our favourite characters, we can read the New 52 and enjoy these new versions of our favourite characters. We can also go back and read those many many issues of our "favourite versions" of our favourite characters from the Pre-Flashpoint (or even Pre-Crisis!) universe.<br /><br />So, could many of these stories have been told without the relaunch? Yes, many of them could (certainly a lot of the relaunch titles - such as Hawk and Dove - seem to spin out of the Pre-Flashpoint Brightest Day series). The New 52 was about streamlining the continuity and dropping some elements of characters that couldn't otherwise be dropped in the current continuity (what were they going to do - have Clark and Lois get divorced? Kill Lois?). Make the characters younger, and keep them accessible and relatable to a new generation of readers.D. Mark Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537028797086907873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-82476600622813932872012-09-27T11:20:23.250-05:002012-09-27T11:20:23.250-05:00The Hawk and Dove could have stood without the rel...The Hawk and Dove could have stood without the relaunch -- this seems to be Batman's first meeting with the duo, and there's some talk about how Hawk and Dove haven't be operating that long -- but at the same time Dove is dating Deadman (a la Brightest Day, though Brightest Day isn't mentioned), and there's some reference to characters in the original Hawk and Dove series, so this book is kind of a relic of the old DC Universe.<br /><br />The new Batgirl series couldn't be told as well, I don't think, if not for the relaunch. Having "our" Oracle suddenly become Batgirl again would have implications for the Birds of Prey, for Batgirl Stephanie Brown, Nightwing would have all sorts of issues, the JLA, etc., etc., to the point where the focus wouldn't have been on Barbara Gordon herself -- losing some of the chaff was a benefit for that one.<br /><br />Others probably didn't "need" the relaunch per se: Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Demon Knights, Static Shock, etc.<br /><br />Is your point that DC could launched these titles or created a line-wide relaunch a la Marvel Now without necessarily rebooting continuity? I don't personally think that would have been as successful. One Year Later did not have the same effect (though granted it didn't have a media push); keeping all the continuity, even if only vaguely referenced, would have been a turn-off to creators and new readers; and whereas some titles like Batman and Green Lantern didn't need a large-scale reboot, I think relaunching the Justice League as the world's first heroes and moving the JSA to Earth 2 is a big shot in the arm that those titles needed -- even if not every title has received new continuity, the new construction of the DC Universe is a powerful tool for storytelling going forward.<br /><br />(I also suspect Marvel Now wouldn't be as potentially successful, even as a relaunch instead of a reboot, if DC hadn't relaunched in total first.)<br /><br />I haven't read Green Lantern: New Guardians, neither the first trade nor the zero issue, but does Kyle Rayner's origin no longer match up with Hal's time as Parallax (the truncated five-year time span notwithstanding)?collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-37292492815976021022012-09-27T10:41:44.677-05:002012-09-27T10:41:44.677-05:00Here's my big question about the New 52: How m...Here's my big question about the New 52: How many of these stories could have been told without the relaunch? With a lot of these, it feels like with some character juggling and retcons, it wouldn't be too hard. It's really blatant with the Batman and Green Lantern books, which basically ignore the reboot despite some of the questions it raises (like my issues with how Emerald Night occurred).<br /><br />The one that stands out is Batgirl, and even then, DC wanted to heal Babs years ago.doug.glassmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18018711097234509826noreply@blogger.com