tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post4069440167233238660..comments2024-03-27T21:12:28.287-05:00Comments on Collected Editions: Review: Hawk and Dove (Kesel) trade paperback (DC Comics)collectededitionshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-42534204761161166942011-07-04T16:06:58.759-05:002011-07-04T16:06:58.759-05:00In the Captain Atom co-feature that ran in Action ...In the Captain Atom co-feature that ran in Action Comics during the New Krypton saga, his Monarch persona was explained away as a magical brainwash by Mirabai from Sorcerer's World. However, I've yet to see a DCU character acknowledge Hawk's past as the original Monarch/Extant ever since he came back to life.shagamuhttp://mbbforum.com/mbbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-59803706044202521702011-07-04T09:48:24.741-05:002011-07-04T09:48:24.741-05:00I don't think it was wiped out by a retcon, bu...I don't think it was wiped out by a retcon, but when Hawk was resurrected in Blackest Night it's pretty clear that it's the pre-Monarch/Extant Hawk and I haven't seen much if any mention of that time since. I think they've just chosen to forget that all happened, and it seems that they've chosen to forget about Captain Atom being Monarch too.Waynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-6686077125210361432011-07-02T07:14:41.594-05:002011-07-02T07:14:41.594-05:00Cap became Monarch in Battle for Bludhaven, but I ...Cap became Monarch in Battle for Bludhaven, but I didn't think that Hawk's time as Monarch/Extant was wiped out by an Infinite Crisis retcon?D. Mark Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537028797086907873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-1046992938712326992011-07-01T13:56:30.088-05:002011-07-01T13:56:30.088-05:00Oh, I was all for Monarch being Hawk/Cap Atom. Wha...Oh, I was all for Monarch being Hawk/Cap Atom. What I thought was that the Dove resurrection storyline ended with Hawk treading the thin line of walking between being a hero & villain, and the series end would cut to ...to be continued in A2001 2.<br /><br />Monarch in the post IC Universe was actually Captain Atom. So it'd have happened irrespective of who ends up being Monarch.Aalok Madhusudan Joshihttp://aalokmjoshi.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-24691793690375760102011-07-01T06:52:52.519-05:002011-07-01T06:52:52.519-05:00I didn't read the H&D annual at the time, ...I didn't read the H&D annual at the time, nor was I reading Captain Atom, so I guess that's why I was okay with the switch. I do think it was a stupid idea to switch just because it was leaked or whatever; this was in the pre-www days, so I'm sure very few buyers actually found out about who Monarch was supposed to be ahead of time. Why bother to change it?<br /><br />I doubt that either series was cancelled because of A2001; probably more a case of "these series are getting cancelled, so here are our Monarch candidates". Considering how poorly Cap Atom fared post-A2001 (or am I wrong about that?), Hank Hall may have been no better off. <br /><br />Besides, if the switch hadn't happened, we wouldn't have had all that Monarch stuff in Countdown, with the huge LASTING EFFECTS to the DCU that that series caused! ;-)D. Mark Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537028797086907873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-75600565322988302682011-07-01T05:00:51.267-05:002011-07-01T05:00:51.267-05:00All those who didn't think the Hawk for Captai...All those who didn't think the Hawk for Captain Atom swap wasn't a sudden swerve probably weren't reading The final issues of Captain Atom at the time. Atom was in Africa battling elemental gods and he basically ends up being possessed by dark ancient spirits. His series ended around 2 weeks before the revelation of Monarch's identity. I remember thinking at the time 2 books were ruined and cancelled because of this editorial u turn.Hixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-81760791079397852512011-06-30T21:10:45.524-05:002011-06-30T21:10:45.524-05:00In Hawk and Dove Annual #2 (the Armageddon 2001 cr...In Hawk and Dove Annual #2 (the Armageddon 2001 crossover), Hawk and Dove were shown to be still around in the future and were actively fighting Monarch (and it was the only one out of all of the crossover annuals that showed it's title characters in the future with Monarch) so it made absolutely no sense to me when Hawk was revealed to be Monarch. How could Hawk have been Monarch when his future clearly showed him and Monarch to be separate characters? I didn't know at the time about the switcheroo, I just remember thinking that the Hawk and Dove annual now didn't make sense, and I was really bummed that Hawk and Dove was cancelled and that DC had done that to them.Waynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-65748406443965681202011-06-30T18:19:14.933-05:002011-06-30T18:19:14.933-05:00I was only vaguely familiar with Hawk and Dove at ...I was only vaguely familiar with Hawk and Dove at the time of Armageddon 2001, but I don't remember thinking "this doesn't make sense" when I read the end and Monarch was revealed as Hawk. Seemed perfectly acceptable to me! I didn't find out about the "switcheroo" until the last few years when I got back into comics and the comic news sites. I read that JLE annual (being a huge JLA/JLE/JLI fan), and looking back now it sure makes sense that it'd be Captain Atom, but again at the time it was an easy thing to overlook. Not to mention that they had already established during the series that the mere act of Waverunner touching someone could change their future! That was how they explained him visiting Superman multiple times (as they had annuals for each of his many series).D. Mark Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537028797086907873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-31884942953870190792011-06-30T15:21:42.057-05:002011-06-30T15:21:42.057-05:00The Hawk & Dove series was also one of the fir...The Hawk & Dove series was also one of the first places to see Oracle in action after her debut in Suicide Squad. Count me as a fan who was burnt by the Armageddon 2001 switcheroo ending. It made no sense and it was needless.Hixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-59643566171206508522011-06-30T11:56:15.428-05:002011-06-30T11:56:15.428-05:00I recall being impressed with this, that it seemed...I recall being impressed with this, that it seemed that the Top had caused a lot of mayhem disguised as other people -- but then I hadn't read the limbo issues, so maybe the Top revelation was telegraphed more than I realized. With both War of the Gods and Armageddon 2001, it did seem like Hawk and Dove was the title with stuff really going on for a while, but perhaps that was only the last gasps of the series end.<br /><br />Seems to me the entire Hawk and Dove series would make a good Showcase Presents, like they did with Booster Gold.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-46827888998673063432011-06-30T08:34:35.272-05:002011-06-30T08:34:35.272-05:00The last issue (#28) was a War of the Gods crossov...The last issue (#28) was a War of the Gods crossover, and came out before Annual #2 which was the Armageddon 2001 crossover. Turns out that it wasn't the original Dove who was trying to come back, it was Roscoe Dillon (Flash villain the Top). It tied back into Annual #1, where they met Dillon and a bunch of other villains in that weird purgatory/limbo place. Bringing Dillon back (in the body of a Senator that they had arranged to die prematurely) turned out to be pretty long-lasting.Waynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-79593207366302109512011-06-29T19:29:53.725-05:002011-06-29T19:29:53.725-05:00I remember stopping near issue 25 or so....when th...I remember stopping near issue 25 or so....when the original Dove seems to have returned & Hawk seemingly performs a few robberies to be re united with his brother or something....never even found out how it ended. Theoretically, did the book still exist to go upto War of the Gods as Hank had been turned into Monarch in 1991 while Wotg was 1992....wondering?Aalok Madhusudan Joshihttp://aalokmjoshi.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-77208637368983168092011-06-29T17:59:44.158-05:002011-06-29T17:59:44.158-05:00The first 20 issues or so and Annual #1 were fairl...The first 20 issues or so and Annual #1 were fairly light and fun (with one or two exceptions), then it started to go a bit dark. There was some awesome fleshing-out of their origins in issues 13 - 17; that was some really creative stuff by the Kesels. I loved the supporting characters, and the sort-of-nemesis Barter character was pretty cool. I didn't know about Hawk in Booster Gold or Suicide Squad at the time so I didn't get those issues, but I did manage to snag the Teen Titans Spotlight 2-parter on him (by Mike Baron and Jackson Guice) later on. I started to pick up the current Birds of Prey series because Hawk and Dove were in it, but of course there hasn't been a lot of focus on them. I'll pick up Gates' new series to start with to see where it goes. I'm not sure about the Liefeld of today drawing it, but I thought his stuff in the 1988 miniseries was pretty good and I'm more of a story guy than an art guy anyway so I'm willing to give it a chance.Waynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-90129477827344691832011-06-29T14:57:23.815-05:002011-06-29T14:57:23.815-05:00So glad a fan of the original series chimed in. I ...So glad a fan of the original series chimed in. I read the last issues of Hawk and Dove (War of the Gods crossover) and they were dark, but I liked the way all the friends supported one another. I had not until recently known about all the international intrigue involving Hawk in Booster Gold, Suicide Squad, and elsewhere. There's some hints Sterling Gates's new series might get back to that kind of thing, and I'm curious to see it.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-24596449526756189642011-06-28T16:56:21.388-05:002011-06-28T16:56:21.388-05:00I got into the ongoing Kesel/Guler Hawk & Dove...I got into the ongoing Kesel/Guler Hawk & Dove series in the 1990s (the one that lasted 28 issues and ended at Armageddon 2001) and managed to get this miniseries in floppy form. I really liked it, and I really liked the ongoing series. There was some great stories and lots of humour. I really grew to like how Hank/Hawk was written (smart-alecy, headstrong, brash) and how Dawn/Dove was written to counter him. It also continued fleshing out their friends from the miniseries and made them just as interesting as the main characters. It got a little dark at the end, which I think was the direction the Kesels were told to go with it, but overall it was a great series. It ended before it's time IMHO, and it's too bad it has never been collected. I think you'd really like it.Waynenoreply@blogger.com