tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post5678696890481679067..comments2024-03-27T21:12:28.287-05:00Comments on Collected Editions: Review: Catwoman Vol. 1: The Game trade paperback (DC Comics)collectededitionshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-33136921064286503512014-04-28T09:29:11.032-05:002014-04-28T09:29:11.032-05:00I think that would have made some people happier!I think that would have made some people happier!collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-8136305160445148842014-04-28T07:19:34.115-05:002014-04-28T07:19:34.115-05:00I just read this book for the first time and I tho...I just read this book for the first time and I thought that it would come out in the end somewhere that that wasn' Batman, it was just Selina's imagination.Aalok Madhusudan Joshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14837619279211378828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-74096035399035610102012-09-19T17:25:57.060-05:002012-09-19T17:25:57.060-05:00That this book is not all that shocking if you ten...That this book is not all that shocking if you tend to go for more mature fare is an interesting point. Again I think that if Winick had written a book about an archetypical female villain and male hero, reaction would be considerably different than the fact that it's Catwoman and moreover, Batman. Ed Brubaker had his share of mature content in his Catwoman run (mitigated only, perhaps, by Darwyn Cooke's and Cameron Stewart's more cartoony style), but when you bring Batman into it, you run into that dichotomy -- on one hand, he dangles criminals from rooftops, but on the other hand, he appears on Underoos, and people can't separate one from the other when it comes to a book like Winick's Catwoman.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-8230279741128343852012-09-03T03:02:51.045-05:002012-09-03T03:02:51.045-05:00I just read this and I really enjoyed it. I'm ...I just read this and I really enjoyed it. I'm new to super hero comics, most of what I've read in the past is really just the classics, Watchmen, Preacher etc. I didn't realise that this was controversial. <br /><br />I've jumped on with the new 52 trades, and all the bat books have been great. I didn't think the Batman here seemed too different from the other books, I found it less of a stretch to believe Batman had an existing relationship with Catwoman that I did to believe Bruce Wayne would be fighting criminals along side his 10 year old son.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11655442357396915197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-87105969557023374242012-07-29T15:53:16.096-05:002012-07-29T15:53:16.096-05:00That, as Hix says, this book seems "filthier&...That, as Hix says, this book seems "filthier" in digital is an interesting point. I thought it was interesting a while ago when Geoff Johns said (some interview, don't remember where, sorry) that he's started to pack panels with more going on, with an eye toward someone reading in digital seeing the panels in isolation. As I'm reading Mark Waid's Insufferable and such, I'm curious to hear about this kind of phenomenon.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-44626931822730385222012-07-03T06:55:45.508-05:002012-07-03T06:55:45.508-05:00Great review. I read the first issue and it wasn&#...Great review. I read the first issue and it wasn't enough to get me to keep buying, but I'm glad the story at least went somewhere. I think your point about "at least it has something going on, unlike Green Arrow" is right on the money. I'd rather read something that's borderline inappropriate but still interesting or thoughtful than something that's bland and same-old, same-old. That's why I ended up buying Swamp Thing when I wasn't expecting to like it, and why I didn't keep buying JLI or Green Arrow even though I was expecting to like them.D. Mark Simmshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537028797086907873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-83128752878163200322012-07-03T05:05:55.836-05:002012-07-03T05:05:55.836-05:00I'll probably end up giving this a try at leas...I'll probably end up giving this a try at least, but I dunno.. Winnick these days isn't simply the same he was back in the early 90s. While his Kyle Rayner or G.A. were smart, fun and intriguing he seems to be pretty crass and 2-dimensional these days on the funny pages..Eyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05350758607787528425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-64446810178295452492012-07-03T00:40:50.596-05:002012-07-03T00:40:50.596-05:00Just noting the current rumour that Winnick is off...Just noting the current rumour that Winnick is off the book and Ann Nocenti is taking over. That'll see me done with the title.Hixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-33845325288801001462012-07-02T22:03:26.290-05:002012-07-02T22:03:26.290-05:00I enjoyed this book, though certainly it's qua...I enjoyed this book, though certainly it's quality doesn't quite match up with the other new 52 books I've been reading. Like most people, I'd heard a lot about how the first issue ended before reading it but since Catwoman is one of my favourite characters, I decided to chance it (plus I did hear some favourable reviews). And yeah, it wasn't perfect but it was still fun and I definitely plan to read more in the future.<br /><br />One thing that I really do miss (and one thing that makes figuring out Batman's current "canon") though is Catwoman knowing who Batman is. That said, I do actually like her being more of a villian than a hero. <br /><br />So yes, I'll read more, though I won't be anticipating the next book for this series as much as some of the others.Vickinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-91478268881547283152012-07-02T19:07:02.432-05:002012-07-02T19:07:02.432-05:00I read 1 & 2 then abandoned the book as a cert...I read 1 & 2 then abandoned the book as a certain opinion of it formed at that point. Seeing some counter reviews on subsequent issues, I was inclined to get the trade. Really glad I did as the rest of the story gives a more valid context for what is shown in issue 1. <br /><br />One other thing I noticed, the book seems much more filthy in digital format, than in print. Just a byproduct of seeing panels in isolation.Hixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-74048847339438830972012-07-02T17:49:24.293-05:002012-07-02T17:49:24.293-05:00I can see that, C.E. A lot of it, for me, had to d...I can see that, C.E. A lot of it, for me, had to do with the art, and Winick's never been a must-read writer for me. Liked some of his stuff, disliked other stuff, so the writing alone wouldn't have kept me there.<br /><br />If I need to read some Catwoman, I'll read the Brubaker and Pfeiffer series... after all, I never have!Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-30396252612904977992012-07-02T17:42:11.211-05:002012-07-02T17:42:11.211-05:00In terms of what Siskoid and shagmu were discussin...In terms of what <a href="http://siskoid.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Siskoid</a> and shagmu were discussing, there are two threads in Winick's Catwoman book -- one is Catwoman's self-destructive life, of which sex with Batman is a part; the other is the book's objectification of Catwoman. <br /><br />As I said in my review, I don't think this latter thread really manifests, as compared to Seven Soldiers: Bulleteer -- Winick is saying something about vigilantes under the covers, but he's not saying much (at least not that I could discern) about objectification. Unfortunately, I think this dissonance wrecked the Catwoman title out of the gate; the two threads were conflated (especially in light of just the first issue) and couldn't be rectified.<br /><br />By the end of The Game, the focus on objectifying Catwoman to some extent falls away (the general foci of Guillem March's art notwithstanding) and what's left is the psychological drama solely -- anyone who read just issue #1 of Catwoman ought perhaps also go and read issue #6, and then let the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately six issues is a lot of time to give a title, easier in collected form than monthlies.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-45594459109266775412012-07-02T12:18:40.435-05:002012-07-02T12:18:40.435-05:00I liked the trade and thought it was an interestin...I liked the trade and thought it was an interesting take on Catwoman. I did have huge problems with the portrayal of Batman, but he always felt like a prop in the story and I think he was mostly in the story to sell copies to diehard Batman collectors. If DC thought they could get away with it, I suspect Winick would not have included Batman in the story at all.<br /><br />It felt to me like what a fresh Hollywood take on the character would end up being today in a movie or television series. The CW treatment, if you will, with more sex and violence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-73232248611525085622012-07-02T11:50:37.872-05:002012-07-02T11:50:37.872-05:00@Shagamu: It's not the sex I objected to, it&#...@Shagamu: It's not the sex I objected to, it's the gratuitous way it was presented, in the context of an issue where the protagonist was constantly falling out of her clothes. It read as a male fantasy, where the man shows up and the hot chick just gives it up. Tawdry.<br /><br />This, in the context of DC claiming the New52 was designed to bring in new readers. You'd have thought female-led books would have been designed to attract and keep female readers (a neglected demographic), but no, not only was Catwoman a wet dream on adrenaline, but Voodoo was even worse. If you're trying to get new readers, remember that each book could be a person's first DC comic.<br /><br />Obviously, some people will like it, I'm not disputing that. I'm just criticizing it as a reader recruitment strategy, and using it as an example of DC's current tone deafness.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-20999500782138043382012-07-02T11:39:30.457-05:002012-07-02T11:39:30.457-05:00I didn't pick up Catwoman when it was coming o...I didn't pick up Catwoman when it was coming out because I already had enough on my plate, but I regretted it after reading The Game. But perhaps the fact that I read it as a whole is the reason why I enjoyed it.<br /><br />In the spirit of being Collected Editions, I feel this story definitely benefits from being read together. By doing that you can see the self destruction Catwoman goes through, and that this Catwoman is exactly that: self destructive. Whether she's an adrenaline junkie, trying to avoid a "real" life (with real consequences), or just plain nuts (in much the same way Batman is nuts for dressing up as a bat to fight crime) it's a very interesting character study.<br /><br />And as the conversation went at my LCS: "We knew Batman and Catwoman were doing the do, we've just never had to WATCH it before!". I do really like the fact that you bring up Batman's thoughts and feelings, something I hadn't thought about. For the hero who is supposed to be in total control, what goes through his head to make him go at Catwoman like this?Liang Xiuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14356479769962765014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-63388509123090310852012-07-02T11:34:28.215-05:002012-07-02T11:34:28.215-05:00I seriously don't see anything wrong with Batm...I seriously don't see anything wrong with Batman and Catwoman having sex. It's not like any of them is in a serious relationship with someone else, and while Winick may have a bad habit of doing deliberately controversial stuff to get people's attention, in this case it completely fit the book's harsh tone.shagamuhttp://mbbforum.com/mbbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-45830606275824223972012-07-02T09:36:39.016-05:002012-07-02T09:36:39.016-05:00It probably will, at least as much as Infinite Cri...It probably will, at least as much as Infinite Crisis (we only ever talk about the reality-punching).<br /><br />And yeah, Superman's the other good example. His current day series started with him acting "out of character", as if we knew what that meant.Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-41184430359285671332012-07-02T09:26:36.030-05:002012-07-02T09:26:36.030-05:00Excellent point that even if the reader can separa...Excellent point that even if the reader can separate the Snyder-Batman and Winick-Batman, they ought not have to, and especially not at the outset of the DC New 52. It's not a stretch to say DC is having the same problem right now with Superman, in the trouble readers are having trying to rectify the Morrison-Superman with the Superman of the greater DCU.<br /><br />There were continuity/storytelling mistakes coming out of Crisis on Infinite Earths, and it was maybe unrealistic to think DC wouldn't have the same in the New 52 -- that the New 52 would be "perfect." Obviously that's not the case, and maybe/maybe not DC should be forgiven some missteps; I will be curious to see ten years down the road how the New 52 initiative is remembered, what's still canon, etc.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-6569837065547209992012-07-02T08:33:09.293-05:002012-07-02T08:33:09.293-05:00Great, balanced review. After one issue, I decided...Great, balanced review. After one issue, I decided this was not for me, but it's good to see a literary analysis (and even defense) of it. Ultimately, I think you have it right that it's a misstep in the context of the relaunch.<br /><br />When all characters are being rebooted (at least in part), then any portrayal meant to contrast with the core character (Batman's) is problematic. Since this is a new Batman (no matter how much DC claims every story in the past few years still happened), there is no contrast. This is now Batman, as much as the one in Snyder's book. Just icky. It might have worked as a standalone out of continuity graphic novel, much in the way we were able to dismiss All-Star Batman and Robin, but as part of the NewDC...Siskoidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266365376486695812noreply@blogger.com