tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post7268858210437511275..comments2024-03-27T21:12:28.287-05:00Comments on Collected Editions: Review: Batman: Detective Comics Vol. 1: Rise of the Batmen (Rebirth) trade paperback (DC Comics)collectededitionshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-33766693692573963072018-06-13T14:12:14.999-05:002018-06-13T14:12:14.999-05:00Definitely agree with you about Tynion's use o...Definitely agree with you about Tynion's use of computer hacking for the purposes of plot. It's extremely cringe-inducing - both from a computer technical perspective and from a writing deus ex machina perspective.<br /><br />It comes off as extremely amateurish writing and makes even the worst "Hollywood hacking" scenes look believable in comparison.<br /><br />A real shame, because Tynion's writing otherwise looks to have improved greatly since his time on Batman: Eternal and the New 52 Batman backups.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-36662719018867329132017-04-17T12:05:01.186-05:002017-04-17T12:05:01.186-05:00Yeah, I heard that too and was worried, but thankf...Yeah, I heard that too and was worried, but thankfully it wasn't (at least for me). It actually felt like Venditti was able to write without a leash, and all the plot threads going on in each lantern title from the New 52 looks like it's going to come ahead in this title to form the next GL epic.<br /><br />I love Venditti's Sinestro in this (which is strange since I didn't like his interpretation of him in vol 7 (?) ) and Venditti really nails Guy. I don't think I've been this excited for Guy in a while. He's like pure badass. <br /><br />Anywho, I just really like where Vol 1 sets up each Lantern and pits them in new situations that makes me very excited for future volumes. Also, it relies on the continuity from all lantern books from the New 52, so I think I like that aspect of it the most.Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17178727978311013660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-47757079688230135622017-04-14T16:58:05.237-05:002017-04-14T16:58:05.237-05:00Reading these comments is fascinating because I lo...Reading these comments is fascinating because I loved this volume. Detective might be my favorite of the Bat books currently, and I thought Night of the Monster Men was a total blast. I loved Grayson to bits, but I thought King's I Am Gotham was a bit messy, and I'm having real trouble getting through Seeley's Nightwing, which feels a bit TOO backwards-looking for me with the setting and the character drama. <br /><br />Maybe it's a good thing they've covering the bases with different styles of storytelling, because it looks like what works for some is exactly what doesn't work for others. <br /><br />Looking forward to more reviews!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-87914930446618894932017-04-14T15:49:19.463-05:002017-04-14T15:49:19.463-05:00Thanks for the additional context. Always the dile...Thanks for the additional context. Always the dilemma in this crowded marketplace -- where to devote the time and budget. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-31705947351421550732017-04-14T11:47:38.091-05:002017-04-14T11:47:38.091-05:00The first chapter gives you a bit of a "Who&#...The first chapter gives you a bit of a "Who's Who" with the characters, so you should be fine starting there.HelloTherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05602812462354227620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-87077643156109835402017-04-14T11:46:23.039-05:002017-04-14T11:46:23.039-05:00I'm not sure how far you've gotten with Re...I'm not sure how far you've gotten with Rebirth, so I'll keep it vague, but I think Superman and Nightwing both capture the heart of those types of Dixon stories without being too low-stakes, in that they tell relatable personal journeys set against a backdrop of comicbook craziness. Reminds me of Grant Morrison's approach to Superman, which isn't too surprising since both Peter Tomasi and Tim Seeley seem to be fans of him.HelloTherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05602812462354227620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-48404043533693534502017-04-14T10:54:24.500-05:002017-04-14T10:54:24.500-05:00Appreciate the thoughts. I don't agree, but I&...Appreciate the thoughts. I don't agree, but I've heard what you're saying a lot from many wise sources. Hopefully, as HelloThere said, maybe these are first arc jitters that'll balance out in time. Got to say, I love the big conversations in this book, and I was so impressed with those two-page talk-heavy spreads. I do see what you're saying about Dixon's stories being low-stakes, but I think modern audiences are in some ways past Robin Tim Drake and Sheriff Shotgun Smith chasing down the Electrocutioner; I think those stakes might be too small now. But I get your point.<br /><br />*Such* a good Clayface moment in Monster Men!collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-14670300172952426832017-04-14T10:49:05.507-05:002017-04-14T10:49:05.507-05:00Thanks for the kind words -- don't hesitate to...Thanks for the kind words -- don't hesitate to speak up more often!<br /><br />I think you should be mostly OK reading Detective. Between Batman and Grayson, you know Tim Drake is kind of a separate un-Robin, and you know who Batwoman is. The other characters in Detective -- Spoiler, Orphan -- come out of Batman Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal; that's 78 issues and five trades, so no small task, but if you want to be very up to date, those are what you need. I have a sense Batman & Robin Eternal will become more and more relevant as Detective goes on.<br /><br />If you don't choose to read those, however, I do think you'll be relatively fine; there's good introductions of all the characters at the start of Detective.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-47733149312048808292017-04-14T10:24:57.608-05:002017-04-14T10:24:57.608-05:00Yes, Jacob Kane is the great tragedy of this title...Yes, Jacob Kane is the great tragedy of this title. At the same time, if the trade-off is a Tim Drake who's not a jerk and a Stephanie Brown who knows what she's doing vs. losing Jacob Kane, well, some loyalties run deep. Clearly the DC timeline pre-/post DC Universe: Rebirth is not the same; I choose to believe Superboy Prime punched a wall and we ended up with another timeline's Jacob Kane, and Rucka's Kane is off living in a Convergence bubble somewhere.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-89544100742717455022017-04-14T10:20:28.037-05:002017-04-14T10:20:28.037-05:00I have not heard much praise for Hal Jordan and th...I have not heard much praise for Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, though I'm glad you said so. I hope to start reading that not too long from now.collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-54894672047091398032017-04-14T10:19:11.897-05:002017-04-14T10:19:11.897-05:00If I haven't stated it before, I do believe Re...If I haven't stated it before, I do believe Rebirth is shaping up to be the culmination of what Dan DiDio's been trying unsuccessfully to do since Infinite Crisis, that they kind of fell backward into catching lightning in a bottle with DC's Infinite Crisis-era shared universe, but then failed to replicate that success with Final Crisis, with Brightest Day, with the New 52, etc. But with Rebirth they've got it, either because they've got some cooperative writers in place or because Geoff Johns is taking a heavier hand or both (both of these were in play during Infinite Crisis). That one can follow a certain character from DC Universe: Rebirth to a cameo in Batman Vol. 2 to the Batgirl annual and then to the Supergirl series is exactly what worked in Infinite Crisis and then didn't work in the rest and is now working again; a shared universe where the writers are all on board and the "mythology" sequences feel organic and don't distract from the main story. Good, good stuff.<br /><br />(In nodding to Batman, Inc. and World of New Krypton, don't overlook the side-by-side Batman: Superheavy and Superman: Truth events, which don't get much love because they happened during DC You but were a really cool example for continuity wonks of a whole bunch of titles playing off one if not two mega-events, plus those mega-events even playing off one another.)<br /><br />Regarding Detective being better than Batman, I should say at the time I was comparing first volume to first volume. I've now had an advance look at Batman Vol. 2: I Am Suicide, and the competition becomes a whole heck of a lot tighter. I Am Gotham didn't strike me as anything outstanding; I Am Suicide is the kind of emotionally-wrenching story layered in an issue-by-issue puzzle box of the kind we've come to expect from Tom King, and it definitely makes King's Batman a contender. <br /><br />In that view, you're right; they're just different books. Previously, under Scott Snyder, Batman had been the main and mostly continuity-relevant title, whereas Detective was the also-ran, almost skippable. Now Detective is in some respects the more continuity-heavy whereas Batman is more slimmed-down and character-focused -- but then again, we can't just dismiss Batman as being continuity-light for many of the reasons I stated at the very top. So I come around to thinking we actually find ourselves in the unusual position of a Batman and Detective that are both very strong and relevant, and it's hard to quantify that because it's been almost forever since that was the case.<br /><br />All of which speaks to it being a good time to be reading DC Comics.<br /><br />(PS There is such a good Clayface scene in Night of the Monster Men.) collectededitionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14698269790653953645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-15047465588127396202017-04-14T09:46:53.380-05:002017-04-14T09:46:53.380-05:00I agree 100% with you about Tynion's writing. ...I agree 100% with you about Tynion's writing. It's the very same thing that bothered me about his Batman and Robin Eternal issues: zero subtlety and nuance, and characters stating their feelings with enormous speech balloons that could use some serious editing. His affection for the characters makes up for it at times, but he has lots of room for improvement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-70788816453509352962017-04-14T04:09:22.071-05:002017-04-14T04:09:22.071-05:00I'd have to disagree with this. I found Detect...I'd have to disagree with this. I found Detective Comics to be among the weaker of the Batbooks, down there with Batgirl and Red Hood and the Outlaws. A big part of it is that it's really exemplary of Tynion's big weaknesses when it comes to writing team books. Tynion hones in too heavily on one or two traits for most of the characters. Batman is not a good team player. Cassandra is good at fighting. Tim is a computer nerd with a Deus Ex Machina-level of tech ability. Stephanie is Tim's girlfriend. And Jacob Kane's turn was telegraphed from his first appearance in the comic. It's not uncommon for writers to be a bit reductive when it comes to writing the first arc of an ensemble book, but Tynion's tendency to have characters just express their emotions with paragraphs of text exacerbates this problem. In fact, Tynion really has a big problem with too much exposition all throughout.<br /><br />I also have issues with how Tynion uses computer hacking as a plot device. If I didn't know better, I would have thought that this book was written by a much older writer who's not quite in touch with the younger generation. Stephanie hacks grenades to detonate off soldier's belts. Tim has trash-talking sessions with "T3h_G3n3r4l" about who out-hacked whom. And the big setup that led to Tim's "death" felt really contrived. Tim's hacking expertise is enough to control every drone in the Colony's network, but not enough stop them from killing a target?<br /><br />I can see what Tynion is going for. Where King is putting his own tragic twist on Batman, Tynion is trying to re-capture the magic of the Dixon-era Batfamily. But he seems to miss the ingredient that made the Dixon-era Batfamily work back then. Dixon didn't try to go big. He wrote relatively low-stakes stories, and took it slow. He established character dynamics at his own pace, letting them just hang out and talk like everyday people. Tynion pushes for big action moments and big threats too quickly, without building up a good rapport between the different characters. The result is that Tec has the odd combination of feeling too decompressed but also rushed at the same time.<br /><br />That said, there were a couple of things I liked about this book. I think Kate, for the most part, is well written, and her relationship with her father brings an intriguing dynamic to her arc. I'm actually enjoying the Batwoman solo that spun-off from this. The other element I liked was Clayface. He was a wild-card out of left field, but his redemption arc is actually interesting.HelloTherehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05602812462354227620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-89497754068775667962017-04-13T21:42:22.879-05:002017-04-13T21:42:22.879-05:00I'm jumping back into the Batman Rebirth title...I'm jumping back into the Batman Rebirth titles after a long New 52-ish hiatus -- with exception of Snyder's Batman, Grayson and the first three Batwoman trades. Your intro is promising, that this is a nice marriage of pre-Flashpoint & after -- but wondering if I'll find it overall accessible? (Didn't read past that to avoid ruining the story). Or were there lots of New 52 adjustments to many of these supporting characters that will make me scratch my head? Or any pre-Rebirth books recommended pre-reading for this? <br /><br />Btw -- great blog with really smart analysis. I'm a long-time reader/silent appreciator. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-31803699233343508752017-04-13T17:28:12.842-05:002017-04-13T17:28:12.842-05:00This was the best of the Rebirth books that I'...This was the best of the Rebirth books that I've read so far. And I really want to know what happens next.PeterBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-8257400195179585562017-04-13T14:55:07.843-05:002017-04-13T14:55:07.843-05:00I did considered buying this, but I do not approve...I did considered buying this, but I do not approve of the depiction of Jacob Kane. James could have used a original character or the general. Instead, he ends up butchering a great supporting character in jacob. I know not everyone read rucka's run on Detective but for those that have read it (myself included) I just can't stand this change. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03006143142504553836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-81703234197701134182017-04-13T12:26:56.624-05:002017-04-13T12:26:56.624-05:00Agree with most of your points. Detective is one o...Agree with most of your points. Detective is one of my favorite Rebirth titles right now, and far superior to the main Batman title. I also liked how it's basically the heroes of Gotham all in one book rather than each having their own book. <br /><br />So far I'd say my favorite Rebirth titles are:<br />3. Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps<br />2. Detective Comics<br />1. SupermanCodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17178727978311013660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10945794.post-9834725258468294132017-04-13T08:50:52.913-05:002017-04-13T08:50:52.913-05:00"the better and even the more relevant of the..."the better and even the more relevant of the two series"<br /><br />Them's fighting words! I'll agree that DetCom is the more relevant of the Bat-headliners, with its effects reverberating into Teen Titans, Action/Superman, and of course the main Bat-title, among other places. Indeed, a lot of Rebirth is reminding me of the great fun from "Countdown to Infinite Crisis," which was one of the last times I remember the entire DC line feeling like a cohesive universe. ("Blackest Night," too, although it felt a little like an intrusion; it's hard to believe, more than five years gone, that "Batman Inc" and "World of New Krypton" were happening at the same time!) With the upcoming "The Button" crossover, though, I wonder if "Batman" will edge closer to the center stage.<br /><br />However, I can't agree that it's "better" than "Batman." Speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool Tom King devotee (no relation, by the way), I absolutely relish what he's doing with Batman. He's managed to blend his moody tone poem style with a momentum where every issue feels like a big season finale cliffhanger. That said, I understand that King's style isn't what everyone enjoys, though anyone who tells me that VISION wasn't the best comic of 2016 will have to meet me outside!<br /><br />I think we're seeing a shift in how the Bat-titles are written, something I'll chalk up to Grant Morrison. He famously told Scott Snyder to write Batman as if the Dark Knight were a creator-owned character - put another way, write the Batman YOU want to see, not the Batman that continuity demands. (That Morrison found a way to do both is a testament to his unique brand of continuity porn.) So we've got a Batman book that feels like a Tom King original, just like we had a very clearly Scott Snyder Batman before him. These aren't Batman books by famous writers; these are top-shelf writers putting their stamp on Batman. (Kind of like how "Batman Returns" was a Tim Burton movie with Batman in it, rather than "Batman '89," which was a Batman movie directed by Tim Burton.)<br /><br />In the meantime, DetCom has taken its focus to be "The World of Batman" and consequently roots itself in the DC Universe writ large more than a creator-owned Batman would want to do. But I'm digging it so far; I bristled, as you did, at the Jacob Kane twist, while I'm fascinated by the idea of rehabilitating Clayface - which, with all the madmen running around Gotham, is frankly something of which Batman should at least attempt to do more.Zach Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17905320964723323391noreply@blogger.com