DC Comics Trade Paperback Timeline comments

Tuesday, February 01, 2005

Please leave comments/suggestions on the DC Comics Trade Paperback Timeline here.
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190 comments:

  1. Love your work - it helps to know what else is happening where when you're trying to keep a whole universe straight :)

    I have one addition to your chronology: the "Young Justice: Sins of Youth" tpb takes place between Starman vols 9 and 10, as per the first story in vol 10.

    Keep up the good work!

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  2. Formerly known as the Justice League takes place after JSA: Fair Play - Roulette refers to the events in Fair Play in 'Formely'.

    I Can't Believe it's not the Justice League must take place after Green Arrow: Sounds of Violence (refered to by Power Girl); and before Green Lantern: Rebirth (Guy Gardner is not restored to being a GL yet).

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  3. loki -- all your suggestions sound right. I haven't added them yet, but look for them soon. Thanks for your input!

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  4. Always happy to help :)

    Speaking of which...

    Underworld Unleashed is incorrectly located - it takes place before JLA: New World Order, because the JLA is still on the satellite that gets destroyed in that story.

    Likewise, based on the actual issue date, Final Night takes place before JLA: New World Order, too, although this one's trickier. If Metamorpho or the JLA satellite appear in Final Night, though, that would be conclusive :)

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  5. Me again.

    Got some more for you: Catwoman collections this time.

    CW: The Dark End of the Street and CW: Crooked Little Town occur before Batman: Hush; CW: Relentless after it (Selina is aware of Bruce's identity as Bats in Relentless but not in the other two).

    Oh, and Selina's Big Score occurs during CW: The Dark End of the Street :)

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  6. Me again.

    Superman/Batman: Vengeance is incorrectly placed - a reference in the final issue specifies that it takes place before "Under the Hood", as Batman has not yet met the Red Hood.

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  7. Hey, thanks! That's what I get for getting ahead of myself. I've pulled it until I get a chance to actually read the trade.

    Much appreciated.

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  8. As always, great stuff - although I gotta say, I'm surprised you didn't list the Crisis on Infinite Earths trade at the front with the other new stuff :)

    As usual, I have some additions:
    * the Infinite Crisis Companion occurs more or less in parallel with the Crisis.
    * Green Arrow: Heading Into The Light occurs during the Crisis but after JLA: World Without A Justice League.
    * Batman: Under the Hood 2 also occurs during the Crisis - although Batman's chronology during the event is too complex to allow a more precise placement at this time...
    * Cosmic Odyssey was originally printed (uncollected) in 1988

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  9. Jack Knight reflects on the events of Sins of Youth - and possibly Wars of the Worlds, I don't know that story well enough to say - in issue #75 of the monthly, which is the first issue reprinted in Starman 10: Sons of the Father.

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  10. Ah, Loki, I know I can always count on you. Thanks much. I'll organize some things around that information soon.

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  11. WHEW! What an undertaking and exactly what I was looking for! Thanks so much for tackling this knotty thread of collected continuity.

    I have been following the characters of DC since the 1950's. Somewhere in the 1990's I gave up on the individual issue collecting. TPB's are a great way to keep in touch with all my friends and their enemies. But what to buy? and What order to read them? Everything is so convoluted, that it is difficult to follow, even when collected in one binding. With so many cross-overs it can become puzzling when major events affect individual titles that have been brought together in sequential order.

    You have bravely and boldly attempted to do just such a thing, Tame the Trades! And you have succeeded admirably, many thanks.

    Initially I was looking for some sequence to the Green Lantern story. I'm not certain that you have covered this aspect of the DCU yet, but that is NOT a complaint.

    Truly DC should award you a medal. I now have a structured list to base my purchases on. You'd think they would have provided such a thing. Frankly the DC website is difficult to navigate or find any actual information about content. Kudos to the fans like yourself, who take the time.

    I look forward to exploring your site and sharing it's existence with others.

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  12. Hey Jeff -- Thanks for the kind words, and for offering to spread the word about the site. Much appreciated on both fronts! There's some more recent Green Lantern trades soon to be added to the timeline, but you're right about Emerald Dawn and some of the older stuff. It'll be there one day -- promise!

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  13. Any updates for 2007 trades after Enemies Among Us?

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  14. I just want to let the creators of the TPB timeline know that I started reading comics again one year ago after a 20 year hiatus. I started at the top of your list and am reading the no mans land group now. I have found your website indispensible. I hope you will continue to keep it updated.

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  15. You didn't think I'd really gone, did you? ;)

    I just wanted to make a case for placing Booster Gold: 52 Pick Up before the Sinestro Corps War.

    There's the Sinestro story in BG, which does lead into the War stories - and the images appearing can easily be justified, since BG is all about time travel...

    (Also, when you get to it, Superman: Escape from Bizarro World crosses over with the War too.)

    As always, loving your work :)

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  16. I'm with you on Escape from Bizarro World fitting in with Sinestro Corps War, but ...

    [spoilers follow]

    I just think that image of the Anti-Monitor in a Sinestro Corps uniform in Booster Gold is too much of a spoiler to put Booster Gold before Sinestro Corps War. Seems to me the reader doesn't miss much putting it afterward. I don't remember completely -- does the Sinestro story in BG really lead to the War, like Sinestro talks about "great fear" or something?

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  17. Spoiler Alert for Booster Gold 52-Pick-Up

    Booster's meeting with Sinestro takes place years earlier, and Booster is (chronologically) the first person to ever say "The Sinestro Corps".

    Umm, also, Aquaman: The Waterbearer must occur before JLA/Avengers, because Aquaman has the solid water hand he gets in his story in JLA/Av.

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  18. My feeling with Booster Gold is that even though it comes before The Sinestro Corps chronologically, it also spoils Sinestro Corps; in my opinion, readers would rather get their Sinestro Corps reveal in Green Lantern, rather than in Booster Gold. That's why I put Booster Gold near Sinestro Corps, but not before it.

    As for Aquaman, I thought he got his water hand in JLA: The Obsidian Age. I don't have it handy (no pun intended); am I wrong?

    I put Waterbearer after JLA/Avengers because Aquaman gets arrested and taken away from the JLA in Waterbearer (so that must be after JLA/Avengers, which has continuity problems of its own anyway!), but if I'm wrong about the hand thing, let me know.

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  19. Great work! It's pretty amazing. I'm just wondering: is there a reason why 2002 and 2003 aren't on the list? And I'm curious as to where Gotham Underground should be...

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  20. Glad you're enjoying the timeline; we haven't completed 2002 and 2003 yet, but we'll get to it eventually. The goal one day is to have all of DC Comics's modern trades on the list.

    I'd read Gotham Underground round abouts when you read Salvation Run (maybe right before), after Countdown to Final Crisis Vol. 3 but before Robin: Violent Tendencies. Hope that helps!

    PS The timeline is moving because GeoCities is closing down. Stay tuned for the new location!

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  21. I'm still using the GeoCities one - but it hasn't been updated in a long while. where is the new one?

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  22. The DC TPB timeline hasn't moved yet, and I apologize for the lack of updates. I've actually been doing a lot of work on the timeline behind the scenes to shore up how I have it organized, etc. It's on a short list of projects I need to complete -- I'm looking at making some improvements and adding more material around the time it moves to the new location. Thanks for your interest, and stay tuned!

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  23. As you may have heard, the DC TPB Timeline has now moved to location on this site, in fact, and has also been updated with Final Crisis information. Enjoy!

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  24. Looks good, well done.

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  25. This stuff is amazing, I recently started reading again starting with Identity Crisis and I've been trying to find a reading order ever since. This is the first site that actually gave a list of ALL trades with a reason to their placement. THANK!

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  26. This is amazing. I started re-reading these trades about a year ago after finding the DCTP TIMELINE. I had been reading them initially when the trades were published and I had become so confused (huh, when did that happen? Where did that character come from? etc.). After stumbling onto your site from the DCTP TIMELINE site, I now read your blog all the time and the DCTP TIMELINE has been indespensible in letting me enjoy these TPs in order and finally making sense. In a lot of ways it is like I am reading them for the first time since everything makes more sense now. Keep up the phenomenal work!

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  27. I've noticed that a few trades are missing from the list, ones that I would think come before Final Crisis (Shadowpact, Checkmate, Helmet of Fate, etc). Are these going to be added at a later time or are they not as important??

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  28. Will be added, not to worry. The goal is to have every in-continuity trade on the timeline in time. Stay tuned!

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  29. It appears to me that Secret Six Unhinged is misplaced.

    Spoiler:
    Due to a certain character being killed this should be after later issues when this has been explained further.

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  30. It is misplaced; it's a typo. I messed up something on my timeline sheet the other day, and there you go: chaos. Will fix right now; I appreciate eagle-eyed readers looking for other items that seem obviously out of whack (like Unhinged), but I think it's fixed now.

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  31. Can somebody please tell me where these TPB go in the time line?

    Final Crisis: Revelations
    Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds

    Also, was the Day of Judgement story (where Hal Jordan becomes Spectre) ever made into a TPB?

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  32. I've added Final Crisis: Revelations to the timeline; will add Legion of Three Worlds soon.

    Day of Judgement itself was never collected, but you can see crossover issues from it in JSA Presents: Stars and STRIPE Vol. 1, and also JLA: World War III (Spectre appears).

    Thanks for stopping by!

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  33. You're not missing anything particularly good if you haven't read Day of Judgement. The Wikipedia article on it has all you need to know.

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  34. I'm having a trouble placing these in the overall chronology:

    JLA: World Without Grown-ups
    Young Justice: A League of Their Own (has to follow)
    Green Lantern: New Journey, Old Path (comes before The Power of Ion)

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  35. Firstly I would like to say what an excellent job the Collected Editions Team are doing - this site has become my bible for reviews and reading orders of the TPB's.

    I'm about to head up to Final Crisis / RIP, but I have a few books on my shelf still unread as I'm not sure at what point to read them. It would be great if someone can tell me which ones of the following should be read before FC/RIP.

    Flash - The Wild West
    GLC - Ring Quest
    Superman - Escape from Bizarro World
    Green Lantern - Secret Origins
    Tangent - Supermans reign vol 2
    Shadowpact - darkness & Light
    Shadowpact - The Burning Age
    Booster Gold - Blue & Gold
    Batman - Private Casebook
    Batman - Hush returns
    Trinity vol 1, 2 &3
    Checkmate - Chimera
    Green Arrow / Black Canary - Family Business
    Catwoman - Crime Pays
    Brave and the bold - book of destiny

    Obviously this is a big ask, and I don't expect them to be addded to the timeline, but it would be nice to know if they are pre or post final crisis/rip. I expect most to be pre...

    Thank very much in advance for any feedback. John

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  36. Thanks for your suggestions -- I have just added some of these to the timeline (update 11/28/09), with more to come.

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  37. Hey - thanks for adding some of my suggestions in to the time line - great work as ever and I look forward to further updates!

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  38. Quite welcome John. The goal is to get every relevant in-continuity trade up there at some point, so if you don't see all the ones you were looking for now, they'll be there eventually.

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  39. ComicReaderDude12/02/2009 09:38:00 PM

    Here are some others that weren't on the list, but not sure exactly where they go:

    Countdown to Adventure - Basically starts right after 52 ends and is in parallel with Countdown Volume 2, and the events here happen before whichever trade has Starfire back on Earth with full powers again. But it definitely appears before before Adam Strange's appearances in Rann/Thanagar: Holy War. The only reason to state that this is in parallel with Countdown Vol 2 is that Forerunner meets Monarch in CD Vol 1 and there were backup stories in CD to Adv with these two following their meeting in CD Vol 1, although those backups are not in the CD to Adv trade and to my knowledge they aren't collected anywhere?

    Shadowpact: The Pentacle Plot - After 52 ends and before Helmet of Fate and Shadowpact: Cursed.

    Helmet of Fate - Should be after Shadowpact: The Pentacle Plot since it shows Det. Chimp in the Oblivion after events in that trade and should be after Birds of Prey: Blood and Circuits shows Black Alice after her appearance in that trade.

    Dr. Fate: Countdown to Mystery - Should be right after Helmet of Fate but prior to Countdown Vol 1.

    Creeper: Welcome to Creepsville - After Jack Ryder's appearances in the Superman trades during 52, but before Batman RIP, since Batman appears briefly.

    Wonder Woman: The Circle - Not sure, but after Amazons Attack and before WW: The Ends of the Earth.

    Mystery In Space (Vols 1 & 2) - After Countdown to Adventure, but before Rann/Thanagar: Holy War.

    Black Adam: The Dark Age - Should be after the end of 52 and WWIII, but before BA meets Mary marvel in Countdown Vol 1. Also, should be after Trials of Shazam Vol 1, but before Trials of Shazam Vol 2 (since Freddy appears in BA: Dark Age, but before the Trials are completed).

    Trials of Shazam Vol 2 - Should be after Black Adam: The Dark Age, but before Countdown Vol 1.

    Eclipso: Music of the Spheres - Should be in parallel to Dr Fate: Countdown to Mystery (appeared as a backup in the same CD to Mystery comic, but collected as a spearate trade) and should be before Eclipso's appearance in Countdown (not sure what volume).

    52 Aftermath: The Four Horsemen - Should be after 52 and WWIII and after WW, Batman, and Superman are back to full strength, and after the JLA and JSA reform, after Mister Terrific is in Checkmate, but before the next appearances of Dr Cale and Oolong Island anywhere else, since this is the next significant story element for Dr Cale and Oolong after 52. Should be before Black Adam: The Dark Age.

    Lord Havok and the Extremists - Should tie in to Countdown somewhere after Countdown Volume 1.

    As I find others missing or get better info, I will post more.

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  40. I think Batman: Private Casebook should fall pretty much directly after 'Batman: The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul'

    It contains what is basically an epilogue to that, as well as tying up Dini's stories from 'Detective' & 'Death in the City'

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  41. And... where does 'Superman/Batman: The Search for Kryptonite' fit in? (Its #7)..

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  42. First of all, hats off to this incredible work in progress.

    There is a correction I'd like to make though: Green Arrow: The Archer's Quest has to take place after Green Lantern: The Power of Ion, since Kyle Rayner is wearing his post-Ion uniform.

    One other note: JLA: Terror Incognita takes place both before and after Superman: Our Worlds at War, although its place on your timeline is entirely appropriate, since one issue ties in to Batman: The Joker's Last Laugh.

    Keep up the good work!

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  43. Great list!

    Where does Green Lantern: Agent Orange fit in? The cover has a "prelude to Blackest Night" banner...

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  44. The above added (update 1/2/10) with more to come.

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  45. Thanks all for your suggestions. I've consulted my own notes and added almost twenty new books to the timeline today. More, including Agent Orange, will be forthcoming, usually in line with reviews on the site. Thanks again!

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  46. What about Spectre: Tales of the Unexpected (which you reviewed not too long ago)? I haven't read it yet, but does it cross over with anything, or can it go directly after Infinite Crisis Aftermath: Spectre?

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  47. Yes, Tales of the Spectre right after Infinite Crisis Aftermath looks right to me. I've added it to my database, and you'll see it on the timeline with the next update.

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  48. Great work as always... just wanted to add 'Batman: Battle for the Cowl' (and 'companion', which takes place during it) in right after 'Robin: Search for a Hero' and 'Nightwing: The Great Leap'

    It doesn't really involve the greater DCU, so I think that is correct.

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  49. Anyone know where 'Green Arrow/Black Canary: Enemies List' falls?

    and 'Batman and the Outsiders: The Snare'? Batman RIP starts pretty much right after it (well, the issue after this trade ends is dealing with RIP)

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  50. Thanks for your comments. Added Battle for the Cowl books, and also Outsiders: The Snare and The Deep. Green Arrow/Black Canary: Enemies List to come.

    Thanks again!

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  51. Comment about Countdown to Final Crisis 2, which contains the bachelorette party for Black Canary (and then later, the fighting outside). This fits perfectly with the wedding planner.

    But as the timeline fits, we'd be reading the next 2 GA/BC trades before even getting to Countdown 2.

    Not sure if its fixable, but just noting. Fantastic work, I love this resource you've put together, and the reviews!

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  52. Hey, Collected Editions Guy!

    I wish I could call you something less, er, crass, but I hope it'll do.

    So, being a trade afficienato, I was hoping you could straighten out some reading order related stuff.

    Firstly, the Flash books. I want to read some modern Flash, preferably from Waid and Johns. Where do I start, in terms of TPBs, and could you please walk me through the reading order of the subsequent ones.

    Secondly, I want to dabble in some Grant Morrison. What's the reading order in terms of TPBs for his Batman run? Is We3 good? Seven Soldiers? Any other suggestions?

    Thirdly, I wanted to get on the Booster Gold bandwagon, but I know that that's a hefty comittment. In addition to 52, what do I need to read before starting on Booster, and what're the names of the Booster trades.

    Lastly, I wondered why you don't have more Fables reviews up? Did you lose interest after Arabian Nights and Days? If you're going to do them, that's fine, but if you can't/don't want to and are open to the idea, I'd love to do some guest reviews as far as Fables.

    That's it. Thanks for all the work you do for wait-for-traders like myself.

    Tomato

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  53. Congratulations Tomato ... I'm going to use your comment in our first-ever "Ask Collected Editions" segment. Look for it on Wednesday!

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  54. Well how about a Green Lantern reading list? It seems that there are some GL Corps books missing from the list, in between Recharge and the Sinestro Corps War.

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  55. fantastic collection, had one question though, where does Green Lantern: Emerald Knights take place? I know after Baptism of Fire because kyle's in the JL, but is it before or after New Journey/Old Path?

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  56. I have become a faithful follower of your timeline... when can we expect another update?

    Also, I'm wondering if you have a thought or even articulated policy on the Legend of the Dark Knight TPBs? Books like "Shaman", "Venom", "Gothic", etc. arguably and chronologically follow "Batman: Year One", right?

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  57. @herrmaja - Thanks for the question; I do expect to look at LOTDK books on a case by case basis, once much more of the timeline is filled in, and see which ones are distinctly "in continuity." Then there's books like Batman: The Cult (which I know isn't LOTDK), where Jason Todd's appearance puts it "in continuity."

    Preparing an update right now!

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  58. With regards to the Recommended Reading list, you might include

    Batman: Tales of the Demon (and move The Black Casebook down) as key reading for the recent Grant Morrison run. Besides being a pretty awesome set of stories, Tales of the Demon informs Damien Wayne's character quite a bit and gives you most everything you need to know for the Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul.

    The two recent JSA collections by Levitz (which lead into Crisis on Multiple Earths Vol 5).

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  59. Tales of the Demon is a great suggestion -- definitely fits the heading of "out of continuity stories, still referenced." Thanks, Bob.

    Tell me more about the JSA collections -- do those just lead in to Crisis on Multiple Earths Volume 5, or are they in-and-of-themselves still in continuity in some part? I'm think it is still partially in continuity, because it shows Power Girl and Star-Spangled Kid's adventures with the Justice Society, but I'm not sure.

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  60. I'd have to read them again, but they're sort of in-continuity. In Johns' recent JSA run, he calls back to the death of the original Mr. Terrific by the Spirit King (which occurs in CME V5, I believe) and is the crisis a few heroes leave for in one of the two volumes. These issues also provide the introduction to Power-girl as a JSA member and the current explanation for why the JSA members aren't all using walkers to get around.

    On the other hand, Batman (E-2) dies in JSA V2, so it's pretty hard to actually reconcile with modern events (kind of like Kathy Kane appearing in Tales of the Demon).

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  61. I think the new "Recommended Readings" section should definitely go at the top. Also, maybe rename it to just "Pre-Crisis" or something like that (although with Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis, does "Pre-Crisis" still have the same meaning in today's DC universe?).

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  62. I think they're important in context of multiple earths and infinite crisis. I'm not sure about how they effect the jsa titles after cause I haven't gotten to that point yet, but in terms of that era they reverberated in multiple crossover books.

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  63. Some parts of JSA v1 and v2 are in continuity. Power Girl joining the JSA is in continuity (except for her cousin Kal-L introducing her, I suppose). I'd have to dig them out, but I remember while reading them thinking "Geoff Johns clearly read these while writing JSA" because of the connections.

    On the other hand, you have the death of Earth-2 Batman and the introduction of Helena Wayne, so it's a mixed continuity bag.

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  64. You're all on the right track -- this section is indeed for books that might be in continuity in some or in part, but not the whole thing. For JSA, indeed the death of Mr. Terrific, and Power Girl and Star-Spangled Kid/Starman being in the JSA are still in continuity and referenced, so I'll be adding these in. Even the death of the Earth-2 Batman and Helena Wayne got nods during Infinite Crisis, and someone reading those books would understand it better of they read Dark Knight Daughter beforehand.

    Pre-Crisis? I like the sound of that ...

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  65. Just a small comment. You have Batman: Private Casebook listed chronologically as taking place before JLA: Salvation Run. However, in segment 6 "Riddle Unanswered", Batman refers to Catwoman as having "returned from that prison planet", which I'm assuming is a reference to the events of Salvation Run.

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  66. @Richard D -- Quite right. I believe I have moved Batman: Black Glove, Nightwing: Freefall, Batman: Prive Casebook and the two Green Arrow/Black Canary trades down after Salvation Run without messing anything else up. Thanks for noticing this.

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  67. This list is awesome. Actually, your whole site is great. Just wanted to give kudos.

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  68. Although misnamed as a Flash TPB (it is entirely an Impulse collection), Mercury Falling comes soon after the events of Young Justice: Sins of Youth.

    I also have a question about the Grant Morrison Flash trades, Emergency Stop and The Human Race. If memory serves, Superman Blue appears in Flash: Human Race, which would place it between Superman: Transformed and JLA: Strength in Numbers.

    Keep up the great work!

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  69. Added the Morrison Flash trades and some Kyle Rayner-era Green Lantern books, @Tim and Anon. Thanks all for checking in -- more being added all the time.

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  70. How much progress have you made with the post Battle for the Cowl hardcovers / trades?

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  71. Hello again :)

    Loving the new updates - especially the links to individual years, which makes navigation so much easier.

    One small correction: Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters occurs before Millennium - he adopts the hooded costume in Longbow Hunters and then wears it in Millennium.

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  72. There's actually a continuity glitch there, Loki, where Green Arrow appears in his new costume in Millennium, but Canary's changes aren't reflected -- as if Longbow happened before Millennium for him but after it for her. Because I think the costume should be revealed in its own series, I've moved Millennium up and added an additional note. Thanks for the suggestion!

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  73. I have a question about the Flash trades Wonderland and Blood Will Run. From what I can tell, Wonderland contains Flash 164-169 and Blood Will Run has 170-176 and the Iron Heights OGN. However, Wonderland is listed in the timeline much later than Blood Will Run. I haven't read either, so I was just wondering if there is a story-related reason for reading Wonderland before Blood Will Run. Thanks, and keep up the great work!

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  74. Maybe you're looking at an earlier iteration, or mistaking Blood Will Run and Born to Run, both Flash trades; I see Wonderland listed just before Blood Will Run above. If I'm overlooking something, just let me know.

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  75. Just wanted to say that your site is my one stop TPB spot. Was a huge comic collector back in the 90's and have only recently gotten back into it with trades. Your site helps so much in deciding which trades are essential. I thank you for all your hard work

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  76. LOL, I totally agree with what Jason said above... I've been lurking around this site for the past couple months after I stumbled upon it when I googled "DC Comics Trade Paperback Timeline" (it was exactly what I was looking for at the time, thanks!) - I have myself recently gotten back into reading comics after a lengthy viewing of the entire DCAU earlier this year during my time of unemployment, LOL). I grew up with Bruce Timm's universe, but I collected the single issues for awhile, when I was a senior in high school about 10 years ago - but then college came, at UC Santa Barbara no less, so parties and whatnot took precidence over collecting. So now I'm back and rebuilding my story collection via trades, which I prefer anyhow, and thanks to this wonderful compendium, I am able to figure out when I came in, what came before, and what's to come! Just wanted to put the digital pen to paper, so to speak - so thanks again for all of your hardwork and dedication! Can't wait to see what comes next!

    Best,
    Jeff

    P.S. Glad to see that HQ: Preludes & Knock-knock Jokes is up, been wondering where Harl's solo-run fit in among a couple others, thanks!

    P.P.S. And here's a few other as-yet-to-be listed Bat-books that I've that I'm wondering about: The Man Who Laughs (and the included collected Detective back-up issues with Alan Scott); False Faces and City of Crime?

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  77. Thanks Jeff and Jason. All the books Jeff mentions will ultimately end up on the timeline; they're not continuity-specific (that I recall right now without checking), but they contain regular monthly issues, and to that end there's a place for them. Stay tuned.

    Thanks again!

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  78. Just wondering how Flash: Rebirth fits into the timeline? As I recall, it started before Blackest Night, but the Flash: Blackest Night mini-series came out before issue #6 of Rebirth was released. I don't know if Rebirth was just delayed because of Geoff John's writing on both series, and Rebirth takes place first, or if Rebirth wraps up after the Flash: Blackest Night stuff?

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  79. I'm 99% sure it's Flash: Rebirth, then Blackest Night, then Blackest Night: Tales of the Corps. It wouldn't be Blackest Night first and then Tales, and I don't think Rebirth contains an explicit Blackest Night crossover, so that's my guess. I'll have a definite answer in a couple weeks. Thanks!

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  80. I would place Flash: Born to Run much earlier as I consider the main story in the volume makes it count at the start of Waid's run. I would place it around Batman Venom on the timeline.

    Also I think you have the title of Hawkman: Allies and Enemies slightly mixed up.

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  81. I get why you would move Flash: Born to Run, Hix, but my idea (at least) for the timeline is that when you encounter a book on the timeline, you can read it straight through without having to skip the end or duck over to another book. In the case of Born to Run, a lot of it takes place in Waid's early run, but there's just a little bit at the end that takes place much later, and what's latest rules, in essence. That's how I approach it.

    Good on you about Hawkman; I'll fix it soon.

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  82. I don't think "Batman: Son of the Demon" happens that early in the timeline. Batman hasn't even met Ra's al Ghul yet at that point, but in Son of the Demon he clearly has dealt with him before.

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  83. Hey Collected Editions Guy,

    I've got a question about the previous question on Born to Run, I really want to read it since I'm in the early 90's right now and want the main run/story, so if I do want to read it and just skip the part that takes place later, what section/issue/pages should I skip? So I'm basically disgarding your theory in essence to get the main part of the story and come back to it later

    Best,
    Jeff

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  84. Hey Collected Editions Guy,

    I've got a question about the previous question on Born to Run, I really want to read it since I'm in the early 90's right now and want the main run/story, so if I do want to read it and just skip the part that takes place later, what section/issue/pages should I skip? So I'm basically disgarding your theory in essence to get the main part of the story and come back to it later

    Best,
    Jeff

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  85. Could anyone tell me where in the timeline to place "JLA Confidential: That Was Now This Is Then"?

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  86. The JLA Confidential books are now on the timeline, ravingdragoon. They all basically use the Morrison-era JLA as opposed to the Meltzer-Justice League, and I think a good time to read them is after Syndicate Rules, before JLA goes in to Infinite Crisis.

    Jeff, I unfortunately don't have Born to Run right here to tell you the pages, but you can safely read the four-part Born to Run storyline (should be the older of the material) before all other Mark Waid Flash stories, and then save the end until its later place on the timeline.

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  87. I recently read the first few Mark Waid Flash trades, including Born to Run, which I read first. It's pretty obvious in the book where the main story ends and the newer one begins. But the newer story really could be read here; I believe it features Bart as Kid Flash (whereas the rest of the book takes place before Bart has been introduced), but I don't remember anything else being in the story that would be spoiled by reading it now rather than waiting for later.

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  88. In general, agree with your placement of Blackest Night collections, with one exception: Solomon Grundy. Dialogue in the story makes it clear that it takes place in the week immediately leading up to Blackest Night (and, incidentally, that the Blackest Night takes place on a Monday :) ). Solomon rising at the end of the mini is only the most minor of spoilers for BN.

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  89. One of my goals on the timeline (picky, I recognize) is that one could read through and never have to go "who is that?" if it's avoidable. As such, a Bart Allen appearance would be a stumbling block for me, but indeed it's likely clear where Jeff could break up the book.

    I was of two minds about Solomon Grundy, Loki, for exactly the reason you mention; all of the book is pre-Blackest Night, and the end doesn't reflect much more than you already see in Green Lantern Corps: Emerald Eclipse. I'll think on this one as I'm continuing to read Blackest Night.

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  90. First of all,thanks for adding the pre-Crisis recommended reading! I have a couple Batman books for you to add when you get a chance.
    Batman: Cacophony
    Batman: Jekyll and Hyde
    Batman: The Cat and the Bat (early in continuity - has Barbara Gordon as Batgirl)
    Batman: The Wrath (has Nightwing in original costume)
    Keep up the good work!

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  91. Hey there. I think you may have Batman: Detective and Batman: Death and the City mistakenly switched.

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  92. The Detective/Death and the City problem, Hix, was that I think I had Death and the City (and some resulting books like Birds of Prey: Dead of Winter) too early. That's a difficult era to work with, given that BOP: Dead of Winter, Checkmate: Fall of the Wall, Blue Beetle: End Game, and the Sinestro Corps War all share some interrelation, but I think I've got it now.

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  93. Having just finished reading the Countdown (and related) books, I was wondering why you had Death of the New Gods so early? The last issue takes place immediately before Countdown #1, and the New Gods appear all the way through Countdown. Maybe between Countdown Vol 3 and 4?

    Also, the two Ray Palmer trades are reversed; The Hunt for Ray Palmer takes place before The Search for Ray Palmer (as Ryan Choi is no longer with the group in "The Search").

    Finally, Lord Havok finishes up right at the end of Countdown Vol 3, so could be read right after Vol 3. It has nothing at all to do with Vol 4 (it ties into Monarch, and not the New Gods).

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  94. Placing Red Robin: The Grail after Batman & Robin: Batman Reborn doesn't make sense timeline wise considering what happens to Damian in B & R 6.

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  95. Do you consider James Robinson's The Golden Age list-worthy? I'd encourage you to include it as it is referenced in the first Starman collection and it's a work that contributed to the existence of the JSA resurgence. I'd place it somewhere around the Death of Superman which is when it concluded.

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  96. Hix and anonymous, your questions have been promoted to the latest "Ask Collected Editions" column. You can see the answers at the link.

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  97. Love the timeline thus far. I've got more of a general question than a comment about the site.

    Do you know if 'Batman R.I.P.: The Missing Chapter' (Issues 701&702) two-parter that bridges the gap between R.I.P. and Final Crisis will be collected into a TPB, and if so, which one?

    Reference:

    http://www.comicvine.com/batman-rip-the-missing-chapter-part-i-the-hole-in-things/37-224555/

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  98. Yes, those issues will appear in the Batman: Time and the Batman collection next year. Not sure yet whether I'll put that near RIP or after Return of Bruce Wayne (when it was published); my guess is Grant Morrison had specific reasons for holding that story, and a specific point in which he meant the reader to read it. Cheers!

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  99. Hello again!

    Just a suggestion, but I would recommend placing Rage of the Red Lanterns immediately before Final Crisis, as it deals with the creation of the Alpha Lanterns prior to their arrival in Final Crisis as well as stating Kraken's status as a native of Apokolips, foreshadowing her fate in Final Crisis. As well, the rest of the story does not spoil Final Crisis in any way that I can recall.

    Cheers!

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  100. I get what you're saying with Rage of the Red Lanterns and it makes some sense to me -- but at base, Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns was a Final Crisis tie-in meant to be read after the first issue, even if the tie to Final Crisis is tenuous at best and even if, as you say, the story details some of Kraken's actions prior to Final Crisis. Rarely, in mu opinion, does a tie-in "trump" (come before) the main event, and there is a minor spoiler for the first issue fo Final Crisis in Rage -- as such, aside from having them both open at the same time, I think Final Crisis has to win out. I appreciate the suggestion, though, and thanks for reading!

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  101. Hello!

    Just a question, I'm currently at 'Superman: Coming of Atlas' in the DC Timeline, and so far, none of the Superman/Green Lantern trades have made any mention of the events of Final Crisis. At which point in the timeline do we see the various trades deal with the aftermath of Final Crisis and the death of a major character (spoiler-free for those who haven't read FC).

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  102. Hey dude, you still updating this I hope? This list is a LIFE SAVER!

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  103. Great Job dude! The list is amazing!

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  104. Loving the list, it's a great help in slowly catching up with the DCU (I've just read Final Crisis).

    Pleae could you tell me where these tpbs coming in continuity as they are not listed.

    Batman: Arkham Reborn
    Batman: Streets of Gotham: Hush Money
    Batman: Streets of Gotham: Leviathan
    Batman: Streets of Gotham: The House Of Hush

    Thanks.

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  105. Hey there!
    Thanks for all the hard work putting the list together, it's made for great reading and a brilliant resource!
    Just a couple of quick questions;
    1) where (if at all) do the batman trades 'long hallowe'en and 'the chalice' fit into the list?
    2) given that the first four volumes of the collected swamp thing appear before the first 'crisis' and tie in pretty heavily, will you be adding them to the beginning of the list?
    3) I know that he was later moved out of the DCU, but is there any chance you could add the volumes of Hellblazer that are 'in' I to the list? I'm pretty sure that up all the volumes up to 'rake at the gates of hell' should be considered 'in' (in other words, up to the end of the Garth Ennis run)?
    4) the planetary / DCU crossover 'parallel worlds' - where should this be placed (if anywhere)?

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  106. Just updated with a bunch of the "Batman Reborn" titles that the anonymous poster requested -- enjoy! More updates coming soon, and thanks for all the feedback.

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  107. @Anon - You should be happy to see Batman: The Long Halloween now on the timeline. As for The Chalice, as far as I know this has never been referenced in any other titles; as such, I don't think it really has a place in continuity, but just something you can read whenever. Ditto for the Planetary/DCU crossover.

    Tell me more about Hellblazer and Swamp Thing; how do these specifically relate to DC Universe continuity? For an outside book like a Vertigo title, we'd want to see some specific cross-story reference -- like how the later Sandman volumes are necessary for really understanding some aspects of Geoff Johns's JSA, for instance.

    Thanks!

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  108. Hi collected!
    Alan Moore's swamp thing run ties into continuity during 'crisis on infinite earths' in volume 4 - 'a murder of crows'. Chapter four 'revelations' see SW and Constantine arrive on the Monitor's satellitte at the point where the heroes have been brought together to fight the antimonitor ( if you look carefully at pages 128-129 of the TPB you can see SW stood below harbinger). The story ties in further with SW and JC working together to stop the brujah taking advantage of the crisis!
    Hellblazer ties in through both the events of Swamp Thing and Sandman - The events in Sandman vol 1 occur in tandem with ' the fear machine'.
    Hellblazer further ties in during John constantine's 40th birthday in 'fear and loathing' which is attended by Swamp Thing, Phantom Stranger and Zatanna. timeline wise, JC's 40th is in 1993.
    Also, in 1990 JC along with the Phantom Stranger, Dr Occult and Mr E educate Tim Hunter in Magic (meeting Dr Fate, Zatara, Zatana and the Corrigan Spectre along the way) in the first 'Books of Magic' (which takes place between The Fear Machine and Dangerous Habits).
    I hope that I've at least slightly convinced you to put these into the timeline, I really do think they deserve their place!
    Keep up the good work,
    Darryl.

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  109. You have convinced me that Alan Moore's Swamp Thing needs to go on the timeline, given the Crisis connection (the Saga of the Swamp Thing books; not sure the more modern Vertigo runs really tie in to the timeline).

    I'm still unconvinced about Hellblazer, though -- Constantine debuts in Swamp Thing, so we don't need his series on the timeline for the character debut (as opposed, for example, to Ray: Blaze of Power or Hawk and Dove); that Spectre and Zatana appear in Hellblazer doesn't quite make the timeline-cut either, since it doesn't tie into a specific continuity event like Swamp Thing/Crisis does.

    By all means, if you can think of another way Hellblazer ties into an event or affects something else on the timeline, do let me know.

    Which reminds me ... the Kid Eternity miniseries needs to be on here ...

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  110. What about Vixen: Return of the Lion and Red Tornado: Family Reunion that came out last year?

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  111. Hi, I'm wondering where do "Brightest Day Vol 1" and "Brightest Day: The Flash - The Dastardly Death of the Rogues" go in the timeline. Can you please help me with this? Thank you! :)

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  112. @Richard D, it takes a while for the Superman and Green Lantern trades to acknowledge the significant death in Final Crisis -- I'm not sure the Super-titles acknowledge it at all, actually, and the Green Lantern titles don't until just about at Blackest Night. What you want is in books like Nightwing: The Great Leap and then to Battle for the Cowl. JLA: When Worlds Collide and Titans: Fractured also deal with Final Crisis in a more direct way.

    @Kenneth, I think you'll find your questions answered come tomorrow ...

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  113. Dude this list is so awesome. I FREAKING LOVE YOU! Really helps me get my TPBs in order on my shelf and what order I need to read them! I'm currently right at the beginning of Blackest Night, but I have some that come after. I usually pick up like 2 TPBs each paycheck.

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  114. Hi there,

    Firstly, absolutely indispensible list - amazing work!

    Secondly, now that I have all of Gail Simone's Wonder Woman trades, I was wondering where Wonder Woman: Contagion fits into the great scheme of things?

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  115. Just wondering when you are going to do your next update?

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  116. Just a question about the Blackest NIght story arc. Are the trades meant to be read in the order they're presented in this list, or do you need to criss-cross between the different trades to get the story in the proper order?

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  117. The Blackest Night trades are listed here in publication order, and in my opinion in order from the most important to the least -- if you want just the basic story, read Blackest Night; if you want to know how it affects the Green Lanterns, read Lantern and Corps; if you want the ancillary spin-offs, read the rest.

    For more guidance how to read the full series in order using the trades (as I'm going to be doing soon), see our Blackest Night trade reading order.

    Timeline updates coming soon!

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  118. Where would the "Justice League International" trades 5 and 6 fit in the timeline? Until now only 1 till 4 are mentioned.

    Many thanks for this really good timeline!!!! I'm started collecting all the trades on the timeline last year. Just now I'm at "Hawk and Dove".

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  119. Absolutely awesome and indispensible list - I have been using it for reference (and more) for a while now.

    Just one question - any idea where 'Wonder Woman: Contagion' fits in?

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  120. Just another question related to Blackest Night. I'm waiting to pick up the paperback trade, and therefore haven't had a chance to read it yet.

    How does the Blackest Night storyline fit together with New Krypton? Is Superman on New Krypton during the events of Blackest Night, or is he involved in a way that will become apparent once I get a chance to read it.

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  121. Just wondering if you've devised a placement for Wonder Woman: Contagion yet?

    I'd also suggest that Suicide Squad Trial By Fire moves before Millenium as the next volume 'The Nightshade Odyssey' contains the tie in issues.

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  122. Hi there - this is my first post, so apologies for any stupid questions...

    Firstly, this is an absolutely indispensable list, and has saved me a lot of confusion!

    Some questions - where does Wonder Woman: Contagion fit in? I'm guessing it's after Blackest Night, but I don't know exacly where. Also, I guess that Brightest Day Vol 2 comes directly after Vol 1, but what about Justice League: Generation Lost?

    Keep up the great work!

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  123. Wondering, where does Justice League: Rise and Fall fit in?

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  124. JUst wondering where 'Red Robin: Hit List' belongs on this timeline.

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  125. @Tim, you'll see Batman: Cat and the Bat and Wrath are now both on the timeline, thanks to a nod to Batman: Rules of Engagement at the end of Batman and Robin Must Die. It's unlikely you'll see Batman: Jekyll and Hyde here, and probably not Cacophony for a while; the former was just a one-off miniseries without real effect on Batman and Two-Face's conflict proper in the DC Universe ("Elseworlds," essentially, even if set in the DC Universe), and the same for Cacophony, though that's slightly more relevant because it features Onomatopoeia by that character's creator, Kevin Smith. Were Onomatopoeia to appear again in a major way that referenced Cacophony, it might be included, but otherwise books like Cacophony, Jekyll & Hyde, and Cat and the Bat, even, can just be read at will.

    @Richard D, New Krypton does not reference Blackest Night, but the Blackest Night: Superman takes place in the midst of New Krypton, after (but way after) Superman: New Krypton Vols. 2 and 3, and then also after Superboy: Boy of Steel, which puts it pretty safely after Superman: Codename Patriot, and so on.

    @Metal guy, you'll see Generation Lost on the timeline now. I put Generation Lost starting about the same time as Brightest Day (they share an opening scene), and then Brightest Day Vol. 2 afterward, and Brightest Day Vol. 3 and Generation Lost Vol. 2 still to come.

    @Mark, Craig, and Anonymous, you'll also find new Justice League International, Rise and Fall and Hit List all on the timeline now (around Time Masters, and before Brightest Day and Bruce Wayne: Road Home, respectively).

    Lots of requests for placing Wonder Woman: Contagion. Admittedly, as much as I liked Gail Simone's Wonder Woman stories thus far, my interest has waned in the face of J. Michael Straczynski's revamp and the new DC Relaunch series. Will see about reviewing this and placing it on the timeline, if there's interest.

    Thanks all for your support. Don't forget to be touting the timeline around the 'net, and keep those questions coming!

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  126. Hi again!

    Thanks for the great update, and sorry for the annoying double post earlier - I'd love to blame it on a computer glitch, but it was really just my own stupidity...

    I can understand your reluctance about the last of Simone's WW stories, but I think she came to a good stopping point before Straczynski's run. Overall, I felt Gail Simone respected Wonder Woman more than possibly anyone else who has written her.

    Anyway, another question - any idea where Zatanna: The Mistress of Magic should go?

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  127. I am curious as well as to where Wonder Woman: Contagion fits in as well as Secret Six: Cats in the Cradle. I think I brought it up on here before but I never saw the post, so I don't know if it went through. But what about Red Tornado: Family Reunion and Vixen: Return of the Lion? They definitely seem to have a specific place in the timeline somewhere shortly after the Justice League: Tornado's Path.

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  128. I just read New Teen Titans: Who Is Donna Troy? and noticed it doesn't appear on the timeline. I would think since it plays a pretty major role in clarifying and explaining Donna Troy's history leading into Infinite Crisis as well as containing her memorial service after her death that it would be a can't-miss on the list. I think it would probably be placed right before The Death & Return of Donna Troy since the last story regarding her funeral and the characters' dealing with her death takes place basically in between the Death & Return. Not sure the best way to order these since it has spoilers for Graduation Day (her death) but takes place way before her return.

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  129. Hi collectededitions,

    I was looking through my old first printing trades of Lucifer today and I was horrified when I opened up the book and heard an awful cracking sound! The pages sounded like they were about to crack apart and fall out the trade paperback.

    I immediately closed the book again and started worrying if I have been storing my vast collection of TB's in the wrong way?

    I live in the UK and have about 1000 TB's stored at normal room temp (16-18 degrees)sitting on various bookcases.

    What worries me is that one day I will want to sell all my 1st printing TB's and all the earliest ones are gonna crack apart when I inspect them!

    Is it normal that pages will crack out of the spine of TB's as they age?

    Does anyone know how to prevent this?

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  130. @Ben, the Wonder Woman, Secret Six, Red Tornado, and Vixen collections will all be on the timeline in the next update. Per your question about Who is Donna Troy?, if it didn't when you posted your message, it does now. Ditto Hix and Anon on these books.

    @Metal guy, the two Zatanna books are generally unrelated to ongoing continuity, but they'll be on the timeline in the next update.

    @Anon, you ought find Emerald Knights on the timeline at this point as well.

    Big timeline update coming. If there's something you'd like to see on the timeline that isn't there now (and that I didn't suggest is on the way), now is the time to suggest it. Thanks!

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  131. @Tim, I think I've got this right on the timeline right now between Mercury Falling and Sins of Youth, and Emergency Stop/Human Race and the Electric Blue Superman. If it still doesn't look right to you, just let me know.

    @Mark, I have taken your suggestions re: Countdown, Ray Palmer, Death of the New Gods, and so on; you'll see those in the next timeline update.

    @Cyfin, note that at the point in which Son of the Demon was published, the Batman titles were simultaneously revisiting Batman's origins while Batman was at the same time appearing in "present" adventures; Son of the Demon (which will be replaced in the next update with the new all-encompassing Birth of the Demon collection) falls in that latter category. The story is largely out of continuity in any case, simply published at that time as a "special," but the events become canon later on after Infinite Crisis.

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  132. First of all CE, thank you for the amazing effort of this timeline. Now I have a question.

    I just read Green Arrow: Year One (great book!) and it happens early in DC continuity but you placed it after Flashpoint. Likewise Long Halloween takes place around Year One/Two but you have it after 52.

    Now if seems that you do that because they were sort of out of continuity before whatever event happened much later in the timeline and retrofitted them and so you place them next to that later event.
    I understand the idea but to me that doesn't change the fact that these books do happen early on and that's the reason why your timeline tends to confuse me.

    Could you clarify that for me?

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  133. I think you mean that Green Arrow: Year One is listed after Final Crisis, not Flashpoint, but I understand your question.

    Let's look at it like this: pretend you have John Byrne's Man of Steel, Geoff John's Superman: Secret Origin, and Superman: Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite and Superman: New Krypton.

    You might say that since Man of Steel and Secret Origin both happen at the beginning of Superman's career, you should read them first, followed by Krisis and New Krypton.

    But -- Secret Origin was published over twenty years after Man of Steel and makes some changes to continuity. The Sam Lane who's in Krisis is considerably different than the Sam Lane in Secret Origin. The better way to read these books is Man of Steel, then Krisis, then Secret Origin (noting mentally that the events of Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis changed continuity) and then New Krypton.

    This is what makes the DC TPB Trade Paperback Timeline a good and cogent reading order for the DC Universe. If you try to lump together all the different Superman origin stories, Batman origin stories, etc. at the beginning, you won't have a good reading experience because the stories will keep contradicting each other. If you read the stories when they fit into continuity, however -- including where Green Arrow: Year One and Batman: Long Halloween are places, as you mentioned -- it'll be a much smoother and enjoyable read.

    Timeline update ... on the way!

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  134. Tanks for the reply CE. It actually makes sense when you look at it that way yeah.

    Funnily enough I've been reading Batman the way I was describing for a while(currently finishing Knightfall now that they've finally released KnightQuest) and I don't think I've met many situations that was overly bothersome.

    One I could think of is Catwoman in Year One but I guess when I read I know what's new and what's old and I can separate the two and just pick the versions I like best in my mind.

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  135. Great Job!!! Thank you for doing this. I'm having difficulty placing both Crisis on Infinite Earths and Absolute Justice within the timeline. Can you help?

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  136. Crisis on Infinite Earths doesn't entirely fit with the post-Crisis DC stories -- what happens in Crisis is reflected in Justice League International, to an extent, but Superman at the end of Crisis isn't quite the same Superman who appears in the first Byrne Man of Steel volumes. For that reason, I place Crisis at the end of the "Recommended Reading (pre-Crisis)" section -- so basically you can read it at the beginning or you can read it some other time, as you see fit.

    Absolute Justice is an "Elseworlds" story of sorts, though not labeled as such -- it doesn't have a place in continuity and therefore doesn't have a specific place on the timeline. Read it whenever you like as a "make-believe" tale. Hope that helps!

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  137. This is by far the best reading order list I've found on the Internet. Are you going to be adding all of the New 52 volumes not already mentioned?

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  138. Yes -- eventually all the New 52 volumes will make their way to the timeline. As a matter of fact, I just added more today!

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  139. When will the eBooks version at SmashWords be updated with this latest Feb 2013 version?

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  140. The Unofficial DC Comics Trade Paperback Timeline Vol. 1 ebook only encompasses up to Flashpoint, but look for Vol. 2, which will include the DC New 52 and other new material, plus another new Collected Editions ebook, coming in the next few months. Thanks!

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  141. Batman: Secrets of the Batcave (2007) and Superman Vs. Brainiac (2008) are not yet in the list is it possible to include them.

    Informatie about include issues:
    http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=104477
    http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=157068

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  142. The only item of note in Batman: Secrets of the Batcave is the "Man Who Falls" story, which is original to the Secret Origins trade; I'm concerned including it might be redundant. There's a Byrne-era Superman story in that Brainiac trade, but it's also about to be collected in Superman: Man of Steel Vol. 7, and I think that might be a better fit for the timeline. Thanks for the suggestions though!

    Updated the New 52 section; Suicide Squad: Kicked in the Teeth should be after Stormwatch: The Dark Side, not before.

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  143. Honestly man, this is incredible. I've been looking for a legitimate reading order for A LONG time and just stumbled upon this. I understand this is a lot of work, but I have just one request (if you have time, obv.) I was wondering if there was any way you could highlight the things that are absolutely essential to read for the stories. I just copied every single comic down from Identity Crisis-Flashpoint and there are hundreds of comics. Out of them all I don't believe I'd have to read (although if I had the money I would buy it all) everything to properly understand/enjoy the storyline. If you don't wanna do it, no worries, you've already done hundreds of comic book fans a service just by writing this.

    Thanks again! Keep up the great work.

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  144. Appreciate the kind words, Eric -- thanks! There are aspects of what you're describing elsewhere on the site (see Blackest Night, Brightest Day, Flashpoint reading orders), etc., though a full list like you describe is probably not coming soon. This is somewhat discernible from the timeline -- the books listed right up with Identity Crisis have a greater tie than, say, the Plastic Man books, which have no tie to anything. If you're wondering about a couple specific books, you can email me at the Yahoo account.

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  145. Part of the problem with "essential" is that it's all relative. Essential to what? The DCU as a whole? If so, there are probably very few books that can be considered essential; they would be the books that are referenced again-and-again in the general universe. Essential to a particular character? That's different again; a storyline could be critical to a single character, but ignored by the rest of the DCU. Plus, stories that are essential today, may not be "tomorrow".

    Not to mention that the very definition of "essential" could vary from person-to-person. For instance, I don't think any of the tie-ins to Flashpoint would be considered essential to the core Flashpoint story; that is, of Barry Allen trying to restore the DC universe. Everything with Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and the rest of the Justice League really can be boiled down to "this Flashpoint world is a pretty bad place". The tie-ins really just go into how bad it is for each of the various other heroes/villains, but while I, for example, would consider the Wonder Woman and Emperor Aquaman "essential" to Flashpoint because of the great backstory that they provide, others may look at how they affect the ending of Flashpoint and consider them non-essential.

    At the same time, none of this is very helpful to Eric. What *I* did, as someone who was trying to catch up with the DCU via trades, was decide which characters I wanted to catch up on, and which major DCU events seemed to have lasting effects, to decide the general scope of what I wanted to read, then use the timeline to see how it all fits together, and then maybe do some additional googling to determine what was "essential" to each major DC event.

    Of course, that strategy still resulted in me spending $100 on 4 Countdown to Final Crisis books, despite pretty much everyone recommending to avoid them. :-)

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  146. Hi. Thanks so much for providing this resouce for all us poor, sad fanboys (I find it quite lethal because it has only encouraged me to buy more). I just wondered when you were going to start putting in the new 52 vol.2s and the second wave comics? I've bought a few of them as they've come out here in the UK, but I can't put them into an order yet. I wish that order wasn't important, disturbingly it is.

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    1. t0k3n, you'll find a whole bunch of the New 52 Vol. 2s (and even some Vol. 3s!) on the timeline now. Cheers!

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  147. Are you planning to update your timeline with the No Man's Land New Editions? They're just more complete editions I guess so the difference is probably very small.

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    1. Yes indeed -- matter of fact, I just updated the timeline with the new No Man's Land editions, the new Batman: Knightfall editions, and more. The extra material collected in the No Man's Land editions does change their placement on the timeline a little bit. Thanks!

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  148. Hey collededitions guy! First of all I have to complement you for your excellent and most assuredly painstaking labor of love here. Some questions: If you included Kingdom Come in the list because of further appearances of characters, does that mean that due to the inclusion of Carrie Kelly in the New 52 you will include DKR? Additionally if stories that are in continuity for a limited amount of time are included here then are you planing to include Shazam: New Beginnings or must there be a further reference? Melterz Justice League issue 0 references a lot of pre-crisis JLA volumes would that be enough for you to recommend them as pre-crisis reading? And finally would you consider listing out of continuity trades such that completionists can see what they are missing? Thanks!

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    1. Glad the timeline is helpful to you.

      Including Dark Knight Returns because of Carrie Kelly in Batman and Robin is an interesting question. The difference between this and including Kingdom Come because of its ties to Justice Society: Thy Kingdom Come is that in terms of Kingdom Come/Justice Society, the events of Kingdom Come actually did happen; even though Kingdom Come started out as an Elseworlds, it became "in continuity" when the *actual* Kingdom Come Superman appeared in Justice Society. The events of Kingdom Come didn't happen in *our* DC universe, but they happened in that Superman's alternate universe; therefore, they are "in continuity."

      In contrast, whereas a girl named Carrie Kelly is appearing in Batman and Robin, this isn't actually the Dark Knight Returns Carrie Kelly, but just a shout-out to her. Given that, DKR wouldn't necessarily be appropriate for the timeline; it hasn't actually "happened." However, there are occasionally some "reference" volumes listed on the timeline, and I'll have to think about whether DKR would qualify as one of these, probably after I see what ends up happening with Carrie in Batman and Robin. Good question.

      You're right that the Meltzer Justice League does reference a lot of pre-Crisis JLA stories, and I have already included -- a lot of the Crisis on Multiple Earths volumes happen to contain the stories Meltzer references (Red Tornado and etc.). I'll consider if there's more to add to the pre-Crisis list.

      Shazam: New Beginnings would be on this list around Legends if it had ever been collected in trade, but I don't believe it has.

      Not sure what you mean with your last request about out-of-continuity trades.

      Thanks for your questions!

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  149. Hey collected editions, due to the post infinite crisis retcon of Wonder Woman being a founder of the Justice League was the timeline placement of Gods and Mortals Pushed back, given the pre-existing Justice League in Legends?

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    1. Was the placement of Gods and Mortals pushed back? No, it's still where it has been on the timeline, occurring just before Legends (because the next Wonder Woman volume, Challenge of the Gods, is the one that actually crosses over with Legends).

      The fact that Wonder Woman became a founding member of the Justice League post-Infinite Crisis doesn't make a difference. This is a timeline and reading order, so the aim is to read the books as they most make sense with the books that were published around the same time.

      I could move Superman: Secret Origin to near Man of Steel because they're both Superman "origins," but to read them, it wouldn't make sense; Secret Origin contradicts Man of Steel and also other books that take place around that time. Secret Origin is a book that retroactively alters continuity, and as such it should be read at the place in which it affects continuity, which is during the Superman: New Krypton era.

      In the same way, since the Legends books don't reflect Wonder Woman's new status after Infinite Crisis, I wouldn't re-order the Legends books to accommodate it; that wouldn't make for a good reading experience.

      If you don't mind a plug, I talk a lot more about why I don't re-order books this way in my introduction to my Unofficial DC Comics Trade Paperback Timeline Vol. 2 ebook (only $0.99!).

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  150. I'm currently reading on Birth of the Demon (good read!) and I can't really agree with your placement in the timeline, mainly because of Bride of the Demon. In this one Bruce is already training Tim Drake which would make it post A Death in the Family.
    The events in Son of the Demon aren't dated in the story itself (nor is there any occurence of Robin or Nightwing or any other associate) so it would be best to place it shortly after Death in the Family but before Tim wears the tights.

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  151. The Birth of the Demon part of Birth of the Demon also has Jason Todd's Robin tights on display in the batcave so I'd place the whole trade after Death in the Family.

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    1. I appreciate the notes, Daniel. These are compelling reasons for me to move that Birth of the Demon collection. Look for it to shift with the next update. THanks!

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  152. Hi, just wondering where in the New 52 timeline does 'Batman Incorporated Vol. 2: Gotham's Most Wanted' and 'Detective Comics Vol. 3: Emperor Penguin' belong? Thanks.

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    1. I'll be adding those in a future update of the timeline. Batman Inc. Vol. 2 comes before Detective Comics Vol. 3, I can tell you that, but probably both come after Batman Vol. 3: Death of the Family (I think DOTF happens first, then Batman Inc. Vol. 2, then the "Requiem" stories in Detective and elsewhere).

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  153. Hey,

    I am a fairly new comics reader (I used to read comics, but that wasn't serious, just a few comics here and there). This year, I decided to go back and read comics (From Identity Crisis to Cry for Justice..then back to 90s for all the Batman storylines :D).

    Your blog has really been helpful for collecting editions, and reading orders. Anyways, right now, I am on Infinite Crisis (so, I am planning the reading order for all things between IC and FC, then I have to get them :D).

    So far I have got the reading order for event b/w IC and FC. Can you take a look?

    Thank you :)

    52
    One Year Later
    Count Down to FC (I have heard that this story isn't the best. Is it worth reading? I am a Batman fan, so anything good in these?)
    Amazons Attack
    Sinestro Corps War
    Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul
    New Krypton
    Batman RIP
    Final Crisis #1-#3
    Batman #682-83
    FC #4-7
    Batman #684-86
    Detective 853
    Battle for Cowl
    Red Lanterns and Agent Orange
    Blackest Night >> Brightest Day
    Batman: Return of Bruce Wayne
    Final Crisis Aftermath

    Or should I just follow the list you have? (That includes a lot more books, doesn't it? :D). Well, I do want to read as much as I can ;)

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    1. You've got a good list of books there that you want to read; I guess I'd just say you should generally follow the timeline, but just skip over the books you don't want to read and read the ones you do. :)

      You asked specifically about Countdown to Final Crisis. Generally this series is considered "not good"; it has good parts and bad parts, but overall the quality isn't stellar, and also, it has only very tertiary ties to Final Crisis itself, so you won't miss much by skipping it. I don't think there's a big amount of Batman content in Countdown, as I recall; Harley Quinn is in there, Catwoman's friend Holly, Donna Troy, Kyle Rayner, Jason Todd, some New Gods, etc.

      Hope that helps!

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  154. Hi there, I love the site. Thanks for doing it? Will you be updating anytime soon. The New 52 is tricky to follow! Thanks.

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    Replies
    1. Yup -- Just now, as a matter of fact. Lots of Death of the Family, Requiem, and New 52 Vols. 2 and 3. Enjoy!

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  155. So I saw on Amazon that Man of Steel volume 8 is available now. Just thought you'd want to add it to the appropriate spot in the reading order when you have time :)

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    1. Yes indeed -- I love those MOS books and Vol. 8 will make it's way on there eventually (see recent updates including a bunch of New 52 Vols. 2 and 3, plus Deadshot, Nightwing, and more). I believe there's a Perez Wonder Woman volume that will coincide with MOS Vol. 8. Thanks!

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  156. I can't seem to find Wonder Woman The Circle on the timeline. Any idea where it might fit?

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    1. In the Countdown to Final Crisis section. Hope that helps!

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  157. Hi something's been puzzling me and I hope you can help. Is there any significance to the colours at the top of the spines of the new 52 trades? I've been looking for a pattern. The Bat family books seem to be blue but so are the superman ones. All of the green lantern trades are green so that makes sense. There are several others too but I can't figure out why some are grouped together. Just been bugging me for while now and I wondered if you, or anybody, had any idea what it's all about?

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    1. No pattern I can discern. I don't think there is one; I think it was just what colors they thought matched the cover.

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  158. I just wanted to thank you for this timeline, it has been very helpful.

    I started reading comics 2 years ago, what interested me the most was the Crisis events, i started with crisis on infinte earths, zero hour and identity crisis. But there was always something that left me scratching my head, and i always thought to myself "there is probably something else i should have read before starting this book"

    I am so glad i found this timeline, it makes it all so much easier, i truly appreciate it and i look forward to more updates.

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    Replies
    1. You're welcome! Keep stopping by for more updates.

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  159. I'm trying to find where Trinity by Matt Wagner fits into Chronology do you have any thoughts?

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    1. I don't expect to add Matt Wagner's Trinity to the timeline; I don't think it fits. The Timeline is meant for in-continuity stories -- collections of issues from the monthly series, etc. Trinity was "just" a story -- it might have been enjoyable, but it was specifically contradictory to established DC continuity at the time that it was published, positing a meeting between Wonder Woman and Superman and Batman earlier than when they all met in Legends. Conceivably Trinity might align with the new continuity after Infinite Crisis, but again, the main point is Trinity was never meant to align with continuity; it's most certainly out of continuity after Flashpoint. Unless the events of Trinity are ever referenced in another book (which I think is highly unlikely), then again, I don't expect it to be added.

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  160. ok so if I understand correctly, the pre crisis stuff comes chronologically during the 10 year gap after Man of Steel vol. 1, right? Or am I completely off?

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    1. Kind of, sort of. Some stuff happened and some stuff didn't, depending on what the writers brought into continuity. Obviously all the pre-Crisis Superman adventures didn't happen in that ten-year gap because a variety of events -- Superman's relationships with Lois and Lana, becoming a TV reporter, etc. -- wouldn't fit or make sense post-Crisis. However, we have evidence that events like Dick Grayson leaving Wayne Manor, Bruce Wayne adopting Jason Todd, etc., those things still happened. And later on Grant Morrison added back things to the post-Crisis, pre-Flashpoint Batman mythos like the existence of Batwoman Kathy Kane (not to be confused with Kate Kane), which we can generally believe happened in the ten-year gap. So again, the answer's just sort-of.

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  161. Thank you for this amazing reading order !

    Do you think to continue with Convergence + DC You ?

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    1. Yes. No plans to stop updating the timeline, and I will definitely include Convergence and "DC You" books as appropriate.

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  162. I have been collecting Trade Paperback Comics for several years now and when it came to reading a chronological order, yours has been pretty on point. I am almost caught up to Superboy vol. 5 - Paradox in the timeline and don't want to read out of order after that.
    So my question for you, that you have probably been asked many times already, Do you plan on continuing the timeline after Superboy vol. 5 - Paradox? and if so do you have a date?

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    1. Recently updated with a bunch of books before and after Superboy Vol. 5: Paradox.

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  163. Thank you for putting together this timeline!

    I was wondering where exactly does the Batman/Superman New 52 trades fit in the timeline?

    I currently have my collection ordered in your reading order and it pains me to see my Batman/Superman trades sitting off to the side.

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    1. The first four Batman/Superman collections are now on the timeline.

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  164. Hello, thanks for your timeline, it's really helpful since I stoped reading after flashpoint and I'm just catching up.
    A couple of questions, where would you fit Arkham Manor, and the Batman/Superman 1, 2 and 3?, also I assume you will continue with this timeline (as you've stated) with the latest trades (Futures End 2, 3, Worls End 1, 2, and all the others), right?

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    1. Arkham Manor and all the Batman/Superman Vols. 1-4 are now on there, as well as Worlds End. Stay tuned for Futures End and more.

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  165. Changelog (6/27/2016)

    Moved Superman Vol. 5: Under Fire to correspond with Superman: Doomed books.

    Moved Aquaman Vol. 4: Death of a King from Trinity War to after Forever Evil to reconcile a mention of the events of Forever Evil in that book.

    Moved Batman Vol. 6: Graveyard Shift and Detective Comics Vol. 4: The Wrath to before Batman Eternal Vol. 1 to align the timeline of Harper Row, even as all three books contain some spoilers for one another.

    Titles Added:
    Arkham Manor
    Batgirl Vol. 1: The Batgirl of Burnside
    Batman and Robin Vol. 5: The Big Burn
    Batman and Robin Vol. 6: The Hunt for Robin
    Batman and Robin Vol. 7: Robin Rises
    Batman Eternal Vol. 2
    Batman Eternal Vol. 3
    Batman Vol. 7: Endgame
    Batman/Superman Vol. 1: Cross World
    Batman/Superman Vol. 2: Game Over
    Batman/Superman Vol. 3: Second Chance
    Batman/Superman Vol. 4: Siege
    Batwing Vol. 3: Enemy of the State
    Catwoman Vol. 6: Keeper of The Castle
    Constantine Vol. 3: The Voice in the Fire
    Constantine Vol. 4: The Apocalypse Road
    Convergence
    Convergence: Crisis Book One
    Convergence: Crisis Book Two
    Convergence: Flashpoint Book One
    Convergence: Flashpoint Book Two
    Convergence: Infinite Earths Book One
    Convergence: Infinite Earths Book Two
    Convergence: Zero Hour Book One
    Convergence: Zero Hour Book Two
    DC Universe Presents Vol. 2: Vandal Savage
    Earth 2 Vol. 2: The Tower of Fate
    Earth 2 Vol. 5: The Kryptonian
    Earth 2 Vol. 6: Collision
    Earth 2: World's End Vol. 1
    Earth 2: World's End Vol. 2
    Gotham Academy Vol. 1: Welcome to Gotham Academy
    Gotham by Midnight Vol. 1: We Do Not Sleep
    Grayson Vol. 1: Agents of Spyral
    Green Lantern Corps Vol. 5: Uprising
    Green Lantern Vol. 5: Test of Wills
    Green Lantern: New Guardians Vol. 5: Godkillers
    Joker: Endgame
    Justice League Dark Vol. 5: Paradise Lost
    Justice League Vol. 6: Injustice League
    Lobo Vol. 1: Targets
    Multiversity
    New 52: Futures End Vol. 1
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 4: League of Assassins
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 5: The Big Picture
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 6: Lost and Found
    Red Hood and the Outlaws Vol. 7: Last Call
    Red Lanterns Vol. 5: Atrocities
    Sinestro Vol. 1: The Demon Within
    Supergirl Vol. 5: Red Daughter of Krypton
    Supergirl Vol. 6: Crucible
    Superman Vol. 6: The Men of Tomorrow
    Superman: Action Comics Vol. 6: Superdoom
    Superman: Doomed
    Superman/Wonder Woman Vol. 2: War and Peace
    Teen Titans Vol. 1: Blinded by the Light
    Worlds' Finest Vol. 5: Homeward Bound
    Worlds' Finest Vol. 6: The Secret History of Superman and Batman

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    1. Love the Change log feature!

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    2. Thanks! I thought it might give a little more perspective on what's added to and moving on the Timeline.

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  166. Nightwing Vol. 4 should be moved ahead of the Forever Evil event where he is unmasked. In fact, the entire "Zero Year" event chunk could be placed ahead of Forever Evil without a narrative impact. HOWEVER, Nightwing Vol. 4 still has the hero masked and no Zero Year issue, and should be placed ahead of Forever Evil so as not to spoil his arc. I made that mistake by following this order.

    Also curious to see where the remaining All Star Western, Batwoman, and Wonder Woman titles are going.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. I appreciate your suggestions very much, and I take your point about the Nightwing Vol. 4 book. I think a lot of the Batman books got shunted to after Forever Evil because of the Villains Month issues, but you're right there's maybe no need for Nightwing Vol. 4 to be so late; I'll take a look at that.

      However, whereas the "Zero Year" chunk itself (Batman Vols. 4-5) could go before Forever Evil with no narrative impact, I've got them where I have them to directly precede Batgirl Vol. 4: Wanted, which contains both a Zero Year tie-in issue and also a Forever Evil tie-in issue (the Batgirl/Forever Evil issue takes place specifically during the events of Forever Evil). I think that's precisely where Zero Year has to be, no earlier and no later than where other books and events are going to bring it into continuity (and Forever Evil and Zero Year were published about the same time, too).

      Batwoman and Wonder Woman books will both be included on the next update.

      Thanks again!

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  167. Are there any plans to update or condense the pre-Flashpoint section of the timeline when new editions/printings of books are released? I'm thinking about things like the one-volume Bruce Wayne Fugitive, the JLA (1997) deluxe editions, etc.

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    1. I will; thanks for asking. Right now my focus is mainly on filling in the most recent books, but when I'm more caught up on those, I'll go back and add in either new "classic" trades (Ostrander Suicide Squad, Grell Green Arrow) or the new more complete editions (Bruce Wayne Murderer/Fugitive, No Man's Land); I've got these documented for adding. Where the new-more-complete trades span events in places where the original trades can better fit between other books (the original Starman trades versus the Starman Omnibuses), I might either not add them or add them an alternate reading option.

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